Greg White (00:00):

This week on tequila, sunrise, we’re going to spend time with Sarah Barnes Humphrey, and we’re going to hear her story of being a supply chain influencer, starting her own business and surviving the family business. It’s a great story of heart hardship, hard work and hard earned success. So listen up

Speaker 2 (00:31):

[inaudible]

Greg White (00:32):

It’s time to wake up to tequila sunrise we’re unfortunately, without the aid of tequila, we opened your eyes to how venture investing ticks focused on supply chain tech every single week at this unholy hour of the day. If you want a taste of how tech startup growth and investment is done, join me every week for another blinding tequila, sunrise, Greg white here from supply chain. Now I am always happy, never satisfied, willing to acknowledge reality, but refusing to be bound by it. My goal is to inform, enlighten and inspire you in your own supply chain tech journey. Hey, if you are listening on SoundCloud, you should know. You can only subscribe to tequila, sunrise on apps like Apple podcast, Spotify, Google podcasts, or others, and be notified when we pour out another shot subscribed to tequila sunrise today. So you don’t miss a thing.

Greg White (01:47):

All right, let’s jump right into it and listen to this fascinating interview with Sarah Barnes Humphrey. All right, let’s bring in our guest, Sarah Barnes, Humphrey CEO of ships. And you might also know her from let’s talk supply chain. You’ve probably heard her voice before. It’s important to understand that Sarah has supply chain in her blood. So she comes from an entrepreneurial family that built a shipping company and logistics was the topic at the dinner table. I can’t imagine how many people can say that. Then Sarah spent 20 years at the family’s company to help build it and work in operations, sales and marketing. Sarah is on the list of top 100 women in supply chain globally and in Canada, a constant thought leader that you can always hear from her, always a positive message and good friend. I’ve known Sarah for over a year now, and I’m working with her and the team at ships as they come out of stealth mode and into the industry. So Sarah, it is great to have you. Thanks for joining us. Wow. What a awesome introduction. Thank you, Greg. I am super

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (03:00):

Happy to be here and congratulations on all the success with the show, because I think it’s very much needed. And there’s so much to talk about right now in supply chain texts.

Greg White (03:10):

Yeah. Thank you. You know, I feel like there’s a light being shined on supply chain. Generally. We need to do the same thing for tech and

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (03:18):

Yeah. Yeah, we absolutely do. I couldn’t agree more.

Greg White (03:21):

All right. Do you have your shot glass? Oh yeah. Great shot glass. Alright, cheers. Reach for the stars. That’s right. We have to, we have to get into the right frame of mind for this.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (03:33):

All right. I love tequila,

Greg White (03:43):

Sarah, when we can do this in person again, I’m thinking of the array of tequilas that I will have in studio. So it’s not whiskey because whiskey makes not your thing, huh? Well, no, it makes me sing really. That’s funny because usually tequila has that effect on people. Alright. So we talked a little bit about in your intro about your family history. I think it’s fascinating. So I would love for you to tell our community a little bit about your family history and how, how that shaped you, where are you from that kind of stuff, too?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (04:16):

Sure. Yeah. So I grew up, uh, the first bit of my childhood, uh, just outside of Toronto in Mississauga. And then in grade six, I think it was the end of grade six. We ended up moving out to Vancouver and in 1989, my dad had opened up his company and he basically bought, uh, the Livingston freight division. And that’s how he started his company. And, um, so when we moved out to Vancouver in about 92, we had some issues with the Vancouver office. And so we had to go in and take care of the Vancouver office. So the whole family moved out to Vancouver, but I can tell you, I mean, since I was nine years old, my well, my dad’s been in, in logistics his whole entire career from when they left the UK, they went to Iran. Um, and he actually ran the division for left out there.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (05:12):

If anybody can remember lap, like that was a long time ago. And then he moved to Toronto and then we ended up in Vancouver to take over that office. And so for my whole life, it’s really been something that we’ve, we’ve spoken about at the dinner table, because it was what my dad did. And my mom joined him actually in the nineties, um, and started working for the company as well. And so, you know, it was a topic of conversation, right? Like they were talking about work at the dinner table. And so, you know, it was a freight forwarding company initially. And then we expanded into customs, we expanded into warehousing. And so really got a chance to really understand a lot of what happens in a freight forwarding company, air freight, ocean freight, trucking sales, warehousing, customs, you name it. I kind of learned it all.

Greg White (06:00):

Wow. So you, I can’t even fathom being that engaged in, in logistics at that age, but I, of course, right. That would happen. But you know, we were just talking, we talk so frequently with folks who kind of fell backwards into supply chain, or it was something a late career or mid career decision that to get into it. It’s really interesting that you got in at such an early stage.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (06:24):

Yeah. But I started working in the offices when I was 16. So I would do summers in the office, you know, filing and doing different stuff. Um, so, you know, we spoke about it at the dinner table since I was, could remember. And then I ended up starting to work there and really understanding what was happening when I was 16, which is quite young as well.

Greg White (06:46):

So what type of kid were you?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (06:49):

That’s a good question. Um, I don’t know. I was a little shy. Um, you know, I, wasn’t

Greg White (06:55):

Unbelievable. I find that impossible to believe, but okay. I guess. Okay.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (07:00):

It took, it took me a while to come out of my shell because I was bullied a lot. So I was bullied a lot throughout my childhood and it took a toll.

Greg White (07:09):

So I interviewed, uh, Ben Gordon from Cambridge capital. One of his most memorable moments was having been bullied. That is fascinating. I mean, not that you want it to happen, but sometimes maybe it drives you. I don’t know. Yeah. It’s funny how many times you talk to a great person who has had that kind of experience.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (07:34):

Yeah. And I can say in some respects it really did drive me. Like I can give you an example. Um, I wanted to get out of my shell. So for a long time I was terrified of public speaking. And so I knew I wouldn’t voluntarily sign up for Toastmasters. So I got a casting agent instead. And so I went on auditions and I was, I was, you know, doing these auditions in front of the camera and in front of people. And I bombed, like, I sucked really bad, but it wasn’t my career path. So I would get in the car and I would laugh about it. So it gave me a couple of different, you know, things. It, it really, um, got me in front of the camera. It got me out of my comfort zone to really start trying, you know, to kind of speak in public, I guess. And, um, it led me to some really amazing experiences. I was on the shopping channel and, uh, the morning show with Denise Richards, a couple of

Greg White (08:30):

You actually did a couple of commercials. Right, right, right. I remember, I remember you saying that. I think you posted about that maybe on LinkedIn one time. It was actually wasn’t right. But, but it was like pet something, pet pet food was food. Okay. I didn’t know if it was like men or whatever. Okay, cool. That’s an interesting take to do that. And what, what a great idea. I mean, it’s not your career, so get the experience and who cares if yeah.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (09:06):

I got thrown out of audition rooms.

Greg White (09:09):

Well, I mean, and, and you know, when you speak to, you know, you got me thinking about when you speak to an audience, they at least want you to succeed when you’re casting agent, if you’re not good enough, you’re wasting their time and they’re going to pitch you right out.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (09:26):

Yes. And I, they did a couple of times. I remember it was a, I can’t remember. I can’t remember if it was like a laundry detergent, commercial or something like that. And I totally flubbed my lines. I couldn’t figure out how to talk and throw a sock into the dryer or the washing machine at the same time. And remember my lines and the guy was like, that’s it I’ve seen enough. You need to get out. And I was like, Ooh.

Greg White (09:51):

Wow. Wow. All right. So aside from supply chain, you, what is your favorite topic or area of study or just interest?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (10:02):

Um, well, I mean, from a sports perspective, you know, I like to play baseball, so I have been a catcher for, Oh my goodness. Like 33 years or something like that. And I still play and I liked throwing the guys out at second base. It’s kind of funny. It’s kind of a challenge. Now, last year I threw out the two fastest guys in the league.

Greg White (10:23):

You got a pretty good gun then.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (10:25):

Yeah. So that was a lot of fun. I mean, at my age, that’s, you know, that’s pretty fun. And I have a lot of people come and watch me play just for some, some tips and some pointers and stuff like that, which is really nice.

Greg White (10:36):

You must have terrible knees if you’ve been a third, if you’ve been a catcher for 33 years.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (10:41):

No. I mean, knock on wood. They’re pretty good. I mean, I have to do a little bit more icing these days. They’re, they’re pretty good. I think the other thing really is, um, mental health. You know, I like I do buddy checks, you know, with let’s talk every Friday and I think it’s just really important to be positive and treat people the way that you want to be treated and check on people. And so that’s something that’s really important to me too.

Greg White (11:11):

So you’re good at supply chain. You’re good at baseball. Um, you’re really good at media. What is it? You’re not good at, there’s a lot of the worst thing. What are you worst than

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (11:25):

When you do a layup? Like my kids laugh at me because I do this layup with this like huge, goofy grin on my face. It’s horrible.

Greg White (11:36):

So another common theme hoops is not your thing. Right?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (11:40):

Totally not my thing. Totally, totally not my thing and cooking. I am not very good at cooking. I’ve got like my GoTo dishes, but they’re kind of bland.

Greg White (11:51):

So what is that? What’s your go to, um,

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (11:54):

I make a pretty good risotto. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And I make a really good chicken casserole.

Greg White (12:04):

That is awesome for some people, I’m sure I’m not a huge casserole thing.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (12:09):

Well, so this is a chicken and rice one and it’s gluten free. It’s dairy free soy free. Cause I I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m allergic to all of those

Greg White (12:20):

Good. We need to use less soy, you know, we’re so concerned about the rainforest, but soy is the greatest destroyer of the rainforest I learned recently. So yes, because it takes so much land to grow in Brazil. It is the CR particularly it is the greatest reason for destruction of the rainforest. Can you believe that I would have right. Who would have thought that?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (12:44):

And I’m just glad that I don’t have soy then because of,

Greg White (12:47):

I’m glad that I hate it. Yes. Right? Yeah. I’m, I’m an accidental environmentalist. Right?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (12:56):

I like that. I’m going to steal that one.

Greg White (12:59):

So I think it’s always good for people to hear about your journey. Yeah. We’re going to share a bit about your company. We’re going to share some insights that I think people will be able to take away, but there’s always something to take away when you learn about somebody’s journey. So can you pinpoint a single or a few experiences or influences that you feel like really shaped you into who you are today?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (13:24):

Yeah. So I’m, I’m going to start, like we talked about, you know, working summers when I was 16, but after high school, I moved back to Toronto and I didn’t quite know what I wanted to do. And so I ended up going to work for the company and I also got all of my designations and diplomas over 10 years doing it by correspondence while I worked and got hands on experience at the company. So I spent eight years in operations, eight years in sales and then ended up as director of sales and marketing. And there was nothing at the time. I mean, I was looking at my different options to really tell the brand story because you know, there’s always those options to advertise and showcase, I guess what you do, but not really to tell the brand story. And at the time I was listening to a lot of podcasts and I thought, well, Hey, if Lewis house can do it, why can’t I, and that’s what kind of started.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (14:20):

I pitched the idea to my team. Um, I had a guy from my customs department say he wanted to be my cohost. So I was like, sure, why not? And then we called it two babes talk supply chain, which was just like tongue in cheek. You know, it was a guy and a girl and I wanted to also push the boundaries and see what the industry would bear. Right. Because there was a lot of re there was lot out there, but it was very stuffy. It was very professional, very boring and professional is good, but it just wasn’t that yeah. That I was, you know, resonating

Greg White (14:55):

Barnes seems to make boring work. Doesn’t he, I’m not how he does it.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (15:01):

Oh, he does either. So that year I, two things happened. One, I said to my cofounder that I wanted to get into tech and two, I started the podcast and so it all sort of happened kind of simultaneously. And, uh, so we, we ventured on the path to the tech side and I can tell you over the last three years, we’ve definitely pivoted. Um, obviously with a lot of innovation, that’s come out and what’s come out and all of the conversations that we’ve been able to have. So that happened. And then in the fall of 2017, um, my dad ended up closing the doors and I was, can I swear or no,

Greg White (15:43):

I’ve been set on these microphones. So,

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (15:45):

So I was on my ass, I out on my ass after 20 years and not really knowing where to go. And in the last six months before that happened, I had already started making revenue on the podcast. And so I had brought the podcast into my own company. And so I had guests that had paid to come on the show and I had to very quickly learn graphics and web design and where I was going to do the edits and how I was going to record because my team had all done that previously. And I had lost my cohost as well. So, um, so that happened. And then I decided that I wanted to shine a light on women in supply chain. And it wasn’t from a female empowerment standpoint. It was really just that I wanted to showcase stories and highlight to other women how you could get into supply chain and what it meant for your career and just, just really talk to them.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (16:38):

And so in January, 2018, I, I launched the woman in supply chain series. And that was a pivotal moment because that’s when I quickly realized that the name to babes talk supply chain didn’t really work anymore. And so in April, 2018, I rebranded it to let’s talk supply chain and it’s kind of taken off since then. Um, and in, at the same time we were building ships. We had been not in the top 20 of 2000 that were, um, considered for an accelerator program out of Europe. And at that point we didn’t have much all of our,

Greg White (17:17):

Sorry, the Netherlands was that one in the Netherlands. Yeah.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (17:20):

Yeah. And we extended all of, they extended all of our deadlines so that we could come up with a prototype and they had invited us to the final cut. Um, there’s a few reasons why we didn’t go through with it. And, but that’s kind of what was going on on the ship side. And so, you know, we kind of had a valuation just from that experience without, you know, not even having a product. And we were invited to their, um, trade show and pitch event at the end of accelerator program. And so I was able to meet with managing directors of CMA. I was able to talk to shippers and freight forwarders and other innovators that were doing different things in supply chain. And that trip was also a pivotal moment for us on ships because I realized that the path that we were going down needed to be shifted.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (18:08):

Um, and then there was a new group, there was a group that really wasn’t being heard and they weren’t being supported. And that’s when we pivoted to what we’re, what we’re doing now with ships. So what group is that mid-market importers and exporters. So, you know, they’re the ones that are going to three to five different freight forwarders on every single shipment for costing and to, to book their ship, their air and ocean freight shipments. I mean, it was something that I had seen in my sales days and knew was an issue, but I thought our, our original model was the answer. And I really very quickly realized that that group really needed to be supported and they just needed to take what they were doing in email and Excel and move it online. We didn’t want to reinvent the wheel for anybody. We just wanted to make it easier for both

Greg White (19:01):

Easier, more accountable. That’s a great, that’s a great, uh, MVP, right. To be able to just take a process like that and create the repeatability and accountability in it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Wow. So as you went through this process, so this is always a curiosity for me. So I, as you know, we’ve known each other for awhile. Um, I know a ton of, of women in supply chain or in the corporate world, and I’m always fascinated by the dynamics, arguably the struggles of women working in supply chain or in the business world in general. So it was there, was there any, I assume there were, and if so, what were some of the struggles, or maybe even surprising struggles or issues or whatever you want to call them that stand out to you in your journey?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (19:59):

Yeah. So when I was first started, I mean, you’ve got to understand I was working for a family business. I mean, that dynamic in itself was extremely difficult and I was growing up in the family business. Right. Because I started when I was 18. So I was really growing up in the business and I had a lot of growing up to do a, when it came to obviously business, but also when it came to me as an adult. And so there was a lot of challenges within that dynamic. Um, there was a couple of times, and, and also, you know, there’s also jealousy, right? There’s, there’s people within the company that, you know, you say something and it gets spread or because the owners thought, right. And so, you know, it was kinda like, who do you trust? You know, what’s this person going to say in a meeting this, um, to put me down, um, you know, I was told that as, as soon as I started having babies, I wouldn’t think about a career, you know, like that in this day and age. Well, no, I mean, that was, that was, that was early two thousands

Greg White (21:05):

Still, it seems, seems a little late for that to have happened to me. I don’t know,

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (21:10):

You know, so just comments like that. Um, you know, and also, you know, even throughout the last couple of years, just, um, you know, having people fall through when it came to ships, you know, what we were doing and what they kind of promised and how that didn’t really pan out when it didn’t pan out, you saw who they were as a person. Um, you’ve got people that are going to block your success because either they’re jealous of you, they don’t want to see you succeed. They don’t think you can. Um, which is so foreign to me because it’s just not even something that crosses my mind, but it happens right. There’s different dynamics. There’s different people out there. And, you know, I guess I’ve kind of experienced most of it, unfortunately in different capacities, in different realms, depending on my journey and where I was at

Greg White (22:02):

Interesting. I mean, was there somebody who was a supporter advocate mentor that you leaned on that kind of helped carry you through that?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (22:13):

You know, that’s a really interesting question and I usually tend to shy away from that question. Um, just because I don’t really have, you know, anybody specific in mind. I mean, as I was working within my dad’s company, um, you know, my mom was always a shining light. She was head of HR. She was really the only woman on the management team at the time. And, um, you know, so she was always somebody that I looked up to and she was always somebody that sort of helped me think through and talk through, you know, some of the challenges that I was having. Um, and so I, I credit a lot to, to her. Um, I obviously had bosses. I mean, they were good bosses, maybe slightly biased. I don’t know. Um, because I also wasn’t equipped at the time to really understand that and see it, I’m a, I’m a trusted, I trust people by nature and wear my heart on my sleeve as everybody can kind of see from let’s talk supply chain.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (23:14):

And that does get me in trouble sometimes. But, uh, but yeah, and I, and I think, you know, now be doing what we’re doing in media and tech. Um, you know, there’s Claudia Knowlton chick. She is like a shining light from Google. Um, and somebody that I just cherish, the moments that I get when I get, I get to talk to her. Um, and obviously all of the women in my women in supply chain series, like just an inspiration. And honestly, when I started it was, it was so great to hear about their journeys and then think about mine and, you know, you don’t feel alone. It,

Greg White (23:53):

Yeah. I think if anything, whether it’s a mentor or just a support group, if that’s what you want to call it, everybody needs somebody to give them that feeling, particularly in, in tech, you can feel very alone.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (24:09):

Yeah. And I I’d say, I would say recently to my co founder, um, him and I are really close. We can bounce things off. We can have arguments and talk the next day, you know, like we’re, we, we can have very honest and real conversations is, which is what you need in a cofounder. And then I would also say my husband recently, you know, and ever since we’ve kind of known each other, he’s been a really good support to me.

Greg White (24:34):

That’s awesome. I mean, that’s, that’s critical for the success of an organization is to have those people and particularly to have someone who’s around you all the time supporting that.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (24:44):

Yeah. Well, and then on the days that I don’t feel it, he’s my biggest supporter. Right. He’s the one that, you know, knows that I can do it sometimes better than I think I can. And that, you know, that’s huge. Right. Cause some days you’re just like, what is going on? You know, can I do it? Can I not do it? You know, I know I can do it. And then the next minute you’re just like, I don’t know,

Greg White (25:12):

But Alan’s there. Yeah. That’s good. Yeah. Um, so when you think about some of those struggles, right. Was there ever one that just seemed so overwhelming that you were tempted to kind of abandon it all or you felt like it might’ve might crush you and, and how did you, and if so, how did you address how’d you overcome that?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (25:35):

I have to say the worst day of my life was when we closed the doors. Um, that was, that was a pretty difficult one for me. I couldn’t help it. You know, I cried a lot that day. Um, and I cried a lot in front of people. I had one of the management team go around telling everybody that I should go see a therapist because I was, there’s no reason why I should be so upset, which was horrible.

Greg White (26:01):

Well, that sounds like a really toxic environment to tell you.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (26:07):

Um, so that really didn’t help. And you know, when your full family is involved, you know, it’s very difficult cause you don’t really have too many people that you can turn to, to talk about it because I essentially lost well and I lost my family. Right. Because I had been there for so long. Like I had a lot of people in that company that were like family to me on top of my family. Um, and I remember the day I walked into my dad’s office and it was my birthday and cause they were, they were, um, they had to shut some things down. So they were still in the office and was a couple of people working in the office and stuff like that. And he said, he said, I don’t think you’re, you’re not going to get paid for your last expense. You are not going to get a severance.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (26:54):

You are not going to, like, there was, there was a number of different things that he was like, you’re not going to get paid for this. You’re not going to get paid for that. You’re not going to get paid for this. And I was like, wow, like happy birthday to me. And you know, nobody in the office said, ha, they knew it was my birthday. They didn’t say happy birthday because everybody was kind of pissed at me. Like it was my fault. And so it was, that was a tough couple of weeks, especially, you know, knowing that I had the podcast to keep going. Right. And that I really had to pick myself up pretty quickly.

Greg White (27:26):

So how did you do that? I mean, you know, just buckled down or what

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (27:32):

I just kept, I just kept, I just kept working. I mean, I have always had a therapist anyway, regardless of what that guy says. I think it’s always great to have somebody on the outside to be able to talk to. And so, you know, I had somebody like that through it all. I gratitude journal, but I cried a lot. I cried a lot, but I just kept putting one foot in front of the other every day and just started building on it and started, okay, well, if this is what I’m doing now, you know, what does that look like? What new ideas can I, can I put together? But it was, it was tough, right? Because we went from a two income family to a one income family. And me not really knowing what that future looked like for me. And you know, it was very public.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (28:18):

Like everybody in the industry near me knew what happened and I had to support my parents through it. All right. My dad had a lot of things that he had to go through afterwards that I was supporting him on, um, whether it was driving him to an appointment or, you know, different things like that. My mom had just had a stroke, a minor stroke about what a year and a half before, maybe two years. And so I was worried, you know, with all of the stress and everything that was going on. So, you know, I was, I was trying to be a support for her as well and trying to keep the stress down as much as possible. So yeah, it was just, you know, it was, I think, I don’t know. I really don’t know. I just put one foot in front of the other and took it day by day.

Greg White (29:07):

I think that’s about as good as you can do. Right. You got to keep going somehow, right? Yeah. All right. So this is a question I often ask people get ready. Okay. Okay. Um, I think I’m, I think I might have a guess at this, but I hate to do so. So sometimes you might have a propensity or an attribute as a person that could be considered a dysfunction, but I’ve always felt like th th there are, there are people who somehow use that I’m, I’m obsessive compulsive, for

Greg White (29:42):

Instance, by the way. And I, by the way, I don’t like the term obsessive compulsive disorder to be obsessive compulsiveness is all about order. So it should be called obsessive compulsive order. So that should give you some insights into me. I even rename the conditions.

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (29:59):

So I want you to keep that in mind for our first episode that we’re going to be doing shortly, what I’m talking about, you know, what I’m talking about. Alright, cool.

Greg White (30:09):

Uh, but what do you, do you have anything like that? I mean, you know, are you a workaholic or, uh, you know, are obsessive compulsive or nitpicker or anything like that, that you make work to your advantage?

Sarah Barnes-Humphrey (30:23):

Um, yeah, that’s a, that’s a good question. Um, it’s not something that I’ve ever really thought about to be honest. Um, I would probably say that I’m a bit of a workaholic, um, especially since I’ve been working for myself, I’ve been kind of obsessed with, you know, growing this thing and getting it to a point and sort of, you know, figuring that out for myself, kind of, uh, you know, obsessed with, you know, making it work, I guess. Um, so I am a bit of a workaholic that I would say I’m not obsessive compulsive. Um, I think, I think the other one is I like reality TV. So a lot of my, like my downtime, I’m using reality TV to my advantage because I think that it really showcases communication and it really showcases strategy depending on what show you’re watching. And so I can turn that into a bit of advantage when I’m, uh, doing my day to day and figuring out new ideas to

Greg White (31:30):

What is your favorite reality show? So that’s the first half of our interview with Sarah Barnes, Humphrey CEO at ships. And let’s talk supply chain. You are going to have to wait until next week to find out what Sarah’s favorite reality TV show is and how she uses that to develop strategy and techniques for leadership better listen up. All right, that’s all you need to know about supply chain tech for this week. Don’t forget to get to supply chain now, radio.com for more supply chain now, series interviews and events. And now we have two live streams per week. The most popular live show in supply chain, supply chain buzz every Monday at noon Eastern time with Scott Luton, the master and me, plus our Thursday live stream to be named later where we bring you whatever the hell we want. Like a few weeks ago, when we interviewed our producer clay, the DOE Phillips, thanks for spending your valuable with me and remember to acknowledge reality, but never be bound by it.