[00:00:05] It’s time for a Supply chain Now radio broadcasting live from the Supply chain capital of the country, Atlanta, Georgia. Supply chain. Now radio spotlights the best in all things supply chain the people, the companies, the technologies, the best practices and the critical issues of the day. Now here are your hosts.

[00:00:36] Good afternoon, Scott Luton here with you live on Supply Chain Now Radio, welcome back to the show. On this episode, we’re continuing our Vetlanta Voice podcast series where we focus on the veteran community news, insights, challenges and resources with a hint of supply chain, mostly because we’re passionate about serving our fellow veterans and our veteran community. Quick programing note like all of our series and Supply Chain Now Radio, you can find our replays. One of RIDEA channels Apple podcast, SoundCloud, YouTube, wherever else you get your podcast from. As always, we’d love to have you subscribe so you don’t Mesi thing. So let’s quickly think a few of our valuable sponsors that allow us to bring these best practices and really stories to your audience. Verusen the effective syndicate. Spend Management Experts. Supplychainrealestate.com Talentstream. And many more. You can check each of our sponsors out on the show notes of this episode.

[00:01:28] So let’s welcome in my fearless co-host here today, Lloyd Knight, director of International Airfreight LMG at U.P.S. Global Forwarding and co-founder and president of Vetlanta. He didn’t look great. Rainy night and a Vetlanta Supply chain capital of the world. Do you have your suit ready for the families suit? Well, they’re right. It actually is. Well, we’ve got an outstanding show lined up here tonight. Let’s welcome in our featured guest, John Tene, managing director of Citigroup. John, how you doing?

[00:01:59] Good, good. Thanks for having me here.

[00:02:00] So I be here we are to been reading through my my homework, my pre-show notes. And you’ve got a fascinating story looking for to dove more into that. And really a friend and colleague, Kevin Horgan, retired U.P.S. or Marine Corps veteran, Vetlanta Boy board member. I always enjoy outer actions. And you’ve got a fascinating story as well here. Kevin, to share with us. So welcome to the show. Thank you, Scott. You bet. Okay. So with that said, Lloyd, you know, we’ve got you know, you did your year episode magic with laying out some the conversation. Adam Sherkin dove into us. Tell us more where you will start.

[00:02:36] I was really excited. The lineup up these two guests there. They’re both well accomplished in their military service while accomplishing corporate world and really importantly in their communities. Both are great patriots and good friends as we talked with Kevin. First, I have to tell you about my friendship, bond and history with them with Kevin. And this is a great story. So, you know, I’ve been involved in the veteran community for many years and even our relationship pre-dates Vetlanta and one of the first big events I did at u._p._s.

[00:03:07] It was a transition event to help a Veterans Day with their resume days and with their network. And and I didn’t know Kevin and Kevin, you know, made the drive up to my building and he shows up. And the next thing I know is he’s here asking all these young Marines for not wearing their Marine Corps lapel pin. And I look at him and as, my goodness, this is the last thing I need as a Marine in my life. And I you know what? I was so wrong because the Kevin is exactly what I needed. He’s just like all Marines. He point them in the direction and he’s gonna make stuff happen. So I’ve had Kevin next to me for every expansion I’ve done of my veteran volunteerism efforts from the Veterans Business Resource Group, which I started the u._p._s on New Vetlanta. And he’s even on the U.P.S. Veterans Steering Council, which I took over at the beginning of this year. And it was it was the first one I tapped on the shoulder. Mm hmm. So it’s great to have him.

[00:04:12] So I’ve seen him in action to some those summits. And I think he tapped me on the shoulder to help get all the room to sit down at one point. Tom, he didn’t waste any time with that kind of stuff. Right. You put in the right direction. As you said, he gets it done. So glad to have you on the show here today, Kevin. So, you know, Lloyd often jokes about how he didn’t need any Marines and Air Force, but now he really leans heavily on Marines. So tell us when, how and why that you became a Marine.

[00:04:40] Thanks, Scott. I want to say right at the outset that I served for five years. I was an infantry officer and I was never shot at. So I’m nothing special. I served. I was honored to do it. And being an officer of Marines was the great privilege of my life. I mean that. So a little historical perspective. I cannot on why. When I was in high school, from seventy one to seventy five, several things happen. The Vietnam War was closing down. The draft ended. They stopped sending active troops to Vietnam. And in April 75, the less troops and the embassy was evacuated from Saigon. And I graduate from high school a month later and I was hell bent on joining the Marine Corps. And why? For one reason. Not because I want to be a Marine. It’s because my father told me I couldn’t do it. He the ultimate challenge. It was it was it right there. And he really didn’t want me to do it. But he had served. He was an infantry officer in Korea. And and he he he served and he hated being cold. You know, my father’s been gone for 35 years. But that was one of the things he really hated. And that was one of the things he brought back from him. He has a moment they hated or something they hated, but he could not be cold. And that was that was one thing that that strikes me now, just thinking back on it. So my reasons for joining the Marine Corps after I went to college went four years of college, met my wife there. So you get St. Bonaventure University in the magical, mysterious Allegheny foothills of New York State, about two hours south of Buffalo, New York.

[00:06:11] It was great. It snowed every day from Halloween to Mother’s Day. So you take it for what it’s worth. But it was great. It was great. It really was wonderful. The. So my reasons were personal. There was the risk of being too altruistic. There were no great frontiers in the late 70s. And like I said, it was nothing special. I had hair down on my shoulders back when I had hair. God bless the old days. And. And I was you know, I was running amuck doing what young people were doing then. And the job market was terrible. Like that degree in English literature. The interest rates at the time were about 14 percent, which is mind boggling now. So I really had to do something and I wasn’t gonna ride my bike to South America and I wasn’t going to fly a hot air balloon up into Canada. And I said, well, this is probably the last great frontier, at least one that I could qualify for. So I joined I just walked into the also office and they said, well, you want to study for the test? You got it. If you don’t pass the test, then it you know, it’s a stupid test. You take it. You know, that shapes all kinds of I forget what it was a piece of cake. So they asked me, you know. Well, you want to study for a test if you fail it. You can’t take it for another year. And I said, I’ll take it right now. And I was pretty cocky and probably a little hung over, but I took it. I passed three months later that o.c.’s getting yelled at. That’s that’s pretty much the story. Wow.

[00:07:43] That’s very cool. So, Kevin, a you know, coming out of the Marines. You know, you have a great transition story.

[00:07:51] You can talk a little bit about leaving your beloved Marine Corps and become an Industrial engineer and a U.P.S. and then corporate real estate attorney. Right. Which that boggled my mind when I first met you. Those two things should never run in the same circles. And then, you know, your move to corporate headquarters in Atlanta and then from there. How did you get involved in your community efforts? Because Kevin does so much more than the veterans base. I mean, he he he’s involved in his Church of Feeding the Hungry Homelessness Survey.

[00:08:29] He has all the streets together. He has five good stores right there.

[00:08:36] I. Like I said, really nothing special. I had decided to get out of the Marine Corps in the spring of 84. And my wife and I had two babies. We and I was gonna go to law school. That’s what I wanted to do. I walked off the depot at the first week in August and I’d only been a captain. I’d just been promoted. I was a regular officer. I’d just been promoted to captain. So I walked around them Sheer de San Diego like I was hot stuff and I really wasn’t. And then I make the trip from San Diego to New York to move into my in-laws basement. My wife and I and our two babies. Then I was going to go to law school. So two weeks after arriving there, I started loading trucks at night for u._p._s and going to law school. The same day. Part time. Part time at night. And I was going with firemen and cops and transit workers and, you know, people that were just wanting to do something else with their lives. And I still really didn’t know what I wanted to be when I grew up. The funny thing about living in Mandela’s basement was my father in law, who was also, by the way, a Marine officer.

[00:09:48] He, uh, he and I really didn’t talk a whole lot. Even though he knew I was dating, he had eight daughters. So he had to manage that. But yeah, he told me when we moved in. He said, listen, my daughter and my grandchildren are can stay for free. But your 400 dollars a month. Yeah. And that was in 1984. 400 might as well been a million. I was making I was pulling in about eight hundred clear a month and loading trucks. So that’s what I was doing. I work on the what they call the pre-load operation, which is from three to eight and a morning sunrise, if you will. And after about a month of that, they asked me, how would you like to be a part time supervisor? And I was already determining my exit strategy from u._p._s. It was it was eight bucks an hour, which in 84 was a heck of a lot of money. But I still I needed I needed to get out of my basement. The rent was killing me. So my in-laws patient and they said, well, if you become a part time supervisor right away, your benefits kick in right away. And I said, I’m your guy.

[00:10:49] I had to because, you know, my benefits ran out October 1st and everything was coincidental. If being a Marine Corps officer was a great privilege of my life, the great fortune of my life has been able to work for u._p._s. So within the year, I drove a package car for three months. There’s other stories that come along with that. I there’s going to law school at night. So I drove three months and I became an industrial engineer. They promoted me into that, not because I knew anything about engineering. I hated the greening literature because and that’s where what’s endearing about u._p._s. And that kind of logistic company and the the Maureen cause they have a motto. And I’m going to Segway just a little bit here to Jim Mantises, current book callsign Chaos. And he mentioned something in there that really sang to me when he had recruiting duty, which I’d never got involved with. The Marine Corps recruits for attitude and training for skill mounts. So does U.P.S. to a large degree. And that’s what they did. They took a risk on me because I had a good attitude and they trained me for anything they wanted me to do. So I was most fortunate there. I got out of my in-laws basement a year later, not one second too soon.

[00:12:02] And the rest has been wonderful. The I’m a corporate gypsy. I spend most of my career. Of the 33 years I spent probably 27 years in operations, in engineering, going to different terminals and improving things. I was in what we called an industrial engineering manager, which is really just a planning manager guy like the S3. That’s essentially what it was. I started this three and that was all over the country. So we moved six times, which was great and awful because we moved also a couple teenage sister in high school. And if you want to know what screaming at dinner table in silence can both be deafening at the same time. It was, but my kids now are well rounded, well developed. They have families in their own. They’re all successful souls. Great need. They apologize to us now for real jerks. Dad, we’re sorry. And I was like, yeah, your mother still cries about it. But the as far as like the community, one of the things that u._p._s encourages of its directors is that even if you’re just a gypsy or a dilettante in some people’s eyes, we’re really going to be there for three years at a time. Three, four, five years. You still have to you still have to join the tribe.

[00:13:12] And and I took that to heart, and I knew that was the right thing to do. So I joined everything I could join that had something with do with giving back to the community. I also made a team building events with my people. And I had people, you know, usually a hundred people direct reports. And I would make that part of the camaraderie and team building for my business unit and it and well, I like to think it worked out really well. So and that’s what it comes down to locally. I was serving on the board. I got term limited out. I guess that’s what you call it for the Community Assistance Center and Sandy Springs Dunwoody. So I have two term Sarah as a vise president for while and. And that is just a wonderful organization. And as Lloyd mentioned, a very involved with our parish, with a whole host of issues and different ministries there, too, and not in leadership roles, because at this stage of my life, I prefer to be a worker bee. Mm hmm. And that’s pretty much what I do with Vetlanta now, is I do the things that Lloyd tells me to do and do it well that the other people don’t want to.

[00:14:19] That’s that’s kind of my role. You’re the brains and the brawn, the group, and also you’re in the client wherever you find a little bit spare time you have you’re an acclaimed author. You’ve written two books. Tell. Tell us a little bit of the Reader’s Digest version, no pun intended of both books or maybe best maybe a bad example of that. Yes. Might be 10 pages. Give us in a nutshell about the both books and why each.

[00:14:43] I will. And you’re being pretty loose and fast at the word acclaim. Yeah, it’s it’s some people would say it’s more of a hobby. So I wrote two historical novels on the Civil War with two unique aspects. The first one, the Northern Army and the Invalid Reserve Corps, which were involved. Servicemen who had had sacrificed greatly but still wanted to serve in uniform. So I wrote about them a fictionalized account using the 18th Regiment and that’s called the March of the 18th. The second book I wrote two years later was about the orphan brigade of the Southern Army coming out of Kentucky, led by former Vise President John Breckinridge. So I profile Breckenridge in the book and I did fictionalize some accounts, but I stuck right to the letter of the Battle of Stones River. In fact, I have a golden blurb from the historian at Stone’s River who said that my account of the battle is accurate, which is which is huge, because if you know any civil war buffs there, they’re very serious people. So these were this is something I always wanted to do. I. It’s not the career path I chose because I could tell you, I’ve sold about 3000 total books. You’re going to get a couple lunches out of that, that you’re not going to get much else. But yeah, thanks for asking. You bet, Kevin.

[00:16:11] So they’re they’re both easy reads. Can say two rum drinks on the beach, which I loved him. So thanks, Kevin. Hey, John. Turning to you, one of my favorite memories of you is actually being together with Roger early telling stories. And, you know, the first time I saw you both together, I just sat back and and listened in a four hour listener as Rogers, a regional director at Four BLOCK, retired from corporate America and a week mentioned for BLOCK. And in past episodes, they really helped veterans that transitioned out of the military into college and now are helping them transition into the workforce. So they are. Roger is a retired Army command sergeant major from the 90s and then Saja Crowley in the. And John, as a lieutenant to some of the same dirt in the Middle East, and they have these incredible stories about combat operations and Desert Storm. John, you started off at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, spent over a decade in Europe and the Middle East, deployed with three combat tours in Iraq. And you were amazingly a Rhodes scholar and then also a professor of political science back at the academy. And then A, you spent several years working at the White House under two administrations, President George W. Bush and President Obama. Why did you join the army? And did you ever in a million years figure that would be a career path for you? Everything you’ve done.

[00:17:46] You know, it’s the thanks, Lloyd. And by the way, I love Kevin stories. I’m not even sure I should even go at this point.

[00:17:53] Right. I think we should just I should concede my time to the gentleman on my right here.

[00:17:59] And here’s some more cool stories. Especially I love your father and things of the father of two daughters. I totally agree. It could be a lot of noise at the table in silence.

[00:18:10] And I would rather have the noise because at least I know the enemy I’m dealing with at that time. See you in front of the. Who knows what’s going on in their minds.

[00:18:16] But both girls, I would say the same thing given is that they are in great shape now. They both graduated from college. As I say, success in today’s for today’s millennials are if they pay for their own Starbucks.

[00:18:28] Right. If you can justify paying something for it. I love Starbucks. Yes, sir. If you could say, hey, I’ll pay $5 for a cup of coffee.

[00:18:35] That good to go. You’re doing something right in life. You know, Louis, one of the reasons I it was interesting. I did not come from a military family. I was living in Southern California. I was going to high school Dayton. Now, my wife, you know, having a good time. I was going to go off to one of the University of California schools. And I was a sophomore playing wide receiver on the college football or on the high school football team or running track and just live in a typical Southern California life. Not a great surfer, but like the beach. And my but my parents had gotten divorced when I was pretty early, when I was three years old. And I’d grown up largely with Irish Catholic stepfather, my mother. But my father was a had was an immigrant from China way back in the 50s. Right. Way back in the 50s, it come over. He was nationalist, Chinese run out of town, so to speak, by the communists, eventually ends up in the United States of America. He pulls me aside. We’re lifting weights sort of in the basement. You know, he in his basement, I went to go visit him and he said, where are you thinking about going to college? And I said, Oh, I’ve got the University of California, UCLA, Berkeley, UC Irvine, Cal State, Long Beach. I literally schools most of the places where I could stay close to my girlfriend. Right. So I was not a strategic thinker at that point. I was just driven by love. And he said, I really think you should consider West Point. And I had a vague notion of what that was.

[00:19:56] And I said, that sounds like a lot of uniform and a lot of marching from what I can tell. I didn’t even done highscore. SEUS. Right. I said, why do you think I would be? Why would you think I’d want to do that? He says. And then my father was a college professor, said it’s not whether or not you would want to do it. It’s whether you should do it. So he moved very quickly. I didn’t recognize. I didn’t use these terms because I wasn’t as smart then. Right. But he moved very quickly from the empirical to the normative. You went from the you know, the what to the OT and said you really should consider it. And I thought, OK, all right. What’s the next sentence here? And I said, why should I consider it? And he said, you wouldn’t be here if the United States of America had not accepted our family as immigrants in the 1950s, along with many others coming through Angel Island off of the Northern California coast or Ellis Island, much better known as the Statue of Liberty, coming off the New York City coast and port. And he said. So it is our obligation to find a way to continue to give back to the United States of America. And he had done some things. He joined the military very quick tour back in the 1960s. And he said, but your you know, you need to continue that legacy, at least consider it. Right. So I said, OK, I’ll I will consider it. I’ll throw it into the mix. And I figured I looked it up was pretty easy.

[00:21:16] We didn’t have Internet back then. Right. Right. You can lay it out pretty quickly and realize Dewey decimal system. Yeah. I mean, I just look at these Barron’s college books and said, oh, man.

[00:21:25] Is a really high standards. And I was an okay student. No gay athlete, but I am never going to make this cut. So I’ll apply. And I dutifully applied went through the process. Long story short, I get a nomination from my local congressman in Southern California. An analogy just now. It’s momentum and it’s building up. And then I start doing more research. And at the end of the day, I chose I said, I’ll go. I will go in a will. I went out of an obligation. I graduated. And I know it sounds like corny line. I I entered out of obligation and I left four years later realizing it was a privilege to serve the United States of America wearing are of the nation’s colors. So that’s that’s why I went into the military. Why did I say that? If you ask that question, I’d be happy to answer it.

[00:22:11] So we’re going to fast forward to lot because we’re to talk about your transition story. I think these shows here, the Vetlanta Voice podcast, serious. One of the things and outside of digital media, we’re fascinated with transition stories, especially in this era where we’ve got so many men and women get now the service that, you know, are struggling in many different aspects of that.

[00:22:34] So tell us, how did you transition from the ARM Army into a very different role into managing director at Citigroup while all while, you know, all of these different engagements from Vetlanta, the Warrior Alliance, the mission continues, the Bob Woodruff Foundation. And clearly you’ve got a sense of service just like Kevin describe. But talk about that transition for you. Yeah, the it’s. And I think it is just as Kevin’s I think story.

[00:23:00] And you could pull out all the different reasons why anybodies happens to be. Listen, this podcast is a veteran or is active duty or Reserve or National Guard or thinking about transitioning from the military into the civilian sector doesn’t have to be the corporate sector, right? It is to be u._p._s. I happen to be Citigroup, big financial services firm. There are translatable skills. The question is whether or not you can identify what those are. And then when you have the opportunity to showcase those, either be in an interview or a networking engagement, you got to be ready. Right. And as I as I say, just a quick sort of teaching point is every conversation that you have that is not inside the military domain. Right. Is an interview of some sort. And it’s an interview, as do well. Should I hire this person? Should I recommend this person to somebody else in my firm or my company at hire or should I open up my network? Right. Because the minute you start to open up your network as maybe another veteran or civilian, you are putting your own reputation on the line. So every every opportunities is an interview or exposure outside the military. Scott, you ask me the question as to, you know, how did my transition go? I think it is it’s going to sound like, well, wait a second, John. You know, you were your last job in the military. You were in active duty Army colonel, full colonel working at the White House, first for President Bush, leading his national security policy on Iraq. And then you transitioned in when President Obama. Because I was at the transition point and then you transition to supporting President Obama and eventually becoming his senior advisor for Afghanistan and Pakistan. Wow.

[00:24:44] Look, there aren’t that many of the jobs out there, John, that we can’t all deliver, wouldn’t it? Yeah, right. Right. Yeah. Short list of one. So not sure I’m not Stop-Loss in this guy right now. Let’s go back to Kevin in the Marine stories.

[00:24:57] I I will say this. What I’ve everybody has translatable skill that you learned in. Military. That will translate into the civilian sector. My story, I will go with Kevin. I’m nothing special. I have a story in the teaching point is you have those skills that are translatable. And it turns out one of the reasons that they wanted me, why I was hired by the White House to come in through the active duty military Pentagon nomination to the National Security Council was many of the things that are already done in the military. I I had served in combat as a battalion commander, task force 2 3 7 Armor first to Laufer up in the northwest and then the northern part of Ramadi and in Al Anbar province in Iraq. So that was 2006, 2007. And when it was time in the Bush administration, to their great credit, said, hey, look, we need on the ground experts to come in here in in and provide that kind of focus and that kind of knowledge to help inform our policy. Now, you also have to understand the way the national security public security policy process works, have to have some political science background. So I had that from when I taught at West Point. But you package those two things together and then you have the opportunity to be able to communicate in writing, communicating, voice over the phone and in a large part, communicating in person. They’re looking for leaders who have those capabilities and capacities.

[00:26:25] They presume you’re going to come in here. You have the political science background, national security policy background, but they want those soft skills that allow you to be able to execute in some really difficult environments. And I will tell you that my lieutenants, my captains, my sergeants, some of my really high speed for my corporals. Right. Who were having to deal with some very difficult situations in the post-9 11 military military, in the counterinsurgency environment where they were, you know, block captains or community mayors. Right. Dealing with Iraqi sheiks and sometimes Iraqi police and army in some of those folks. Right. Even though they were so spare, our allies weren’t always right. That’s the nature of the counterinsurgency. And we were asking each foresta 0 3’s to execute those missions on a daily basis. I happen to do it at an o5 level when I was a battalion commander. It really skills you in a way that allows you or at least me in that case in Washington, D.C., to command a room, right. To command a conversation and see all the different aspects of all the different competing agendas. I work at at Citigroup today and I do a fair bit of business development, client management, partnership management, internal stakeholder things. And we all work big company, 220000 people, biggest financial services company in the world. So there’s a lot of complexity involved in many of those skills. All those things that I just spoke about that I learned largely by being a battalion commander in combat and then having to deal with competing agendas.

[00:28:00] Right. And just because agendas compete doesn’t mean that none of those that any one of those at gender’s are better. It’s usually a plurality of what is optimal. I learned all of that being a battalion commander and then working at the White House as in 0 6 in uniform working for two different presidents. So you asked me about the transition when it was my turn to consider. Everybody’s got to retire at some point, right? Even the Gemara Joint Chiefs Staff, that senior sergeant major in the Army, they’re all going to retire at some point. Mine happened to be when I was in 0 6 and I was confronted with the question, do I continue doing policy work as a civilian or do I throw my hat in the ring and see what’s out there? And fortunately, when I threw my hat into the civilian sector ring, you can be lucky and good and you want timing, right? I happen to do it right as we are all coming out of the financial crisis in 2011. And I got a really nice open reception. Who said? When I went to Citigroup, they go after about an hour, a half in a couple different interviews. They looked at me and said that you would be great in our global strategy shop because what you’ve done for the president, United States is take global strategy. Put it through a filter and intellectual filter, a common sense filter, and then figure out how does this get implemented at the local level for Citigroup, that happens to be global and then pushed out to 200 big urban environments, 40 different countries.

[00:29:23] And I said, okay, as long as you teach me the banking portion of it. Right, I’ll be squared away. It might take me a few months. And that’s that’s essentially executed. Eight years later, I’m still I’m still retained and paid by Citigroup. Great company. And in many ways, I’ll just do a quick public service announcement about Citigroup. They’re the same way. They are very much focused. Citigroup is very much focused on the community, local, national and global. And for me, it was very fortunate that about a week after I entered Citigroup, they they turned to me and said, hey, we just join this thing called joining forces, which is something that Michelle Obama and Dr. Biden were going to start up as like their signature thing, joining forces. It was going to bring all of corporate America together in support of really having the veterans unemployment rate, which was about 15 percent in 2010. And so we’re going try to have that. In fact, they did. And it’s actually the veterans unemployment rate is lower than the national employment rate. Underemployment is still an issue, right? Not always the perfect fit, but they call main tip. So we just Citigroups it. We just join this. You’re a veteran. I said I’ve been a veteran for a week.

[00:30:29] So I go, if you if you need it, then the CEO is about to go to the White House.

[00:30:35] And I said, if you’re going to ask me to give you talking points about veterans stuff so much, I could do that. If you want me to drive the CEO of Citigroup in an M1A1 Abrams to the White House from York City, I could do that right there. Like we don’t wanna hear that. Give us some talking points. Tell us what it’s like to be veterans. You know, being a little bit funny, overly humorous here, but it worked out. And that was eight years ago. And we we’ve created city salutes, which is takes a look and says, how do we hire, retain and promote more veterans than we’re doing today, more than the industry average, which we do in financial services. And then how do we give back within our communities and allow sort of a higher tide to lift all boats in terms of community goodwill? So that’s my store. That’s where I’m at now.

[00:31:20] I love that. So we’re gonna make a hard right turn here, cause we’ve got it. We’re we’re changed a little bit. I love how we have planned to ask some fun questions as part of this podcast conversation. So some we may surprise you with, others hopefully you may have had a sneak peek at the question that’s really loose, some little different. This is a me to speed round. OK. And I it one of the comment, I feel like we’re glimpsed from something very heavy to something very light. And I’m trying to how can we make it easiest? Segway is possible to stick with Mir.

[00:31:50] So we are going to pose a series of questions to each of y’all and give us your speed round the answer to your first question.

[00:31:57] And John, we’re gonna start with you. Who are your three favorite historic U.S. military leaders? Three favorite U.S. military figures. Let’s let’s let’s let’s make sure we choose somebody from every era.

[00:32:12] I don’t want all lumped into one particular war.

[00:32:16] I heard Kevin talking about his love for the civil war. So I’ll go with it. And since I’m going first.

[00:32:22] Right. So I’m going to take it away. Colonel Joshua Chamberlain is on my little round top and I lucked out.

[00:32:31] I loved how he came down the hill, you know, full charge ahead against against the southern forces. They came up at Gettysburg. Second one would be. I just went to the Philippines on behalf of Citigroup to do some work over there in the contact centers. And I got it. I took an extra day and I toured all of that time and Crigger door and somebody who I’d always followed before, because we were both first captains at West Point, General Wainright, who who essentially stayed behind when all the U.S. forces left and went through the Bataan Death March and was eventually a Medal of Honor recipient. Jonathan, wait, wait. And then for a third one, I’ll move up to my era, a guy who I’ve been talking a lot about. So I’ve gotten this ask this question. Who’s one of my heroes is a guy named Staff Sergeant. Army Staff Sergeant, retired Sal Ginta Guinta. And he wrote a book, Living with Honor. And he is a Medal of Honor recipient from the Afghanistan War. Sal Ginta, Living with Honor. It’s a great book. It starts off with him talking about being a sandwich artist in Subway as a high schooler.

[00:33:38] So he was saying, I’m average schooler, but he was. I met him. He goes, yeah, I can see that you would’ve been average high school. But it turns out he’s a great American hero. So stop serving retired army Salgado.

[00:33:49] Fantastic. Kevin, same question.

[00:33:50] Well, thanks. You took all three of my best to look. I already mentioned General Mattis. I think he’s a modern, if not a historic figure. He’s historical, certainly. And he’s had a huge impact on American military end. KERNAN Washington seen the eye. Have a pension for the civil war. And I think General Grant probably has not been given his his real due. Both as a general and as a as a president. And my Segway on this is I love Washington, D.C.. One of my kids went to school there. If I had a zillion dollars, I would live there. I just love that. I get chills up and down my spine. I know it sounds corny, but every time I go there, I do the most profound statue there after the Jima Memorial. Thank you very much. Is the statue of Grant facing on the west side of the Capitol? And he has two other statues flanking him of soldiers in different forms of distress than he’s facing the Lincoln Memorial. He’s on a horse. And and it’s looks like he’s in the ring because he’s wearing a large, wide brimmed hat and a slicker.

[00:34:59] But he’s looking down Pennsylvania Avenue. It’s one of the largest equestrian statues, actually, in the United States. And I think that that’s probably my favorite piece. And I think that tells you everything you need to know about a man who weathered the storm succeeded and he still keeps an eye on who’s the occupant in the White House. And as a matter of accountability, I think Leslie is. So everybody glosses over Eisenhower. Eisenhower is a very consequential figure in the 20th century. The next to people like Reagan and MacArthur and even John Paul to Mother Teresa. You know, there’s I mean, really a Churchill, of course, is one of our great ones. But he’s not necessarily a military leader. But I think Eisenhower’s military successes and the risks he took and the way he managed with soft skills that John spoke so well about. It’s you don’t you don’t get the job because you have soft skills. You’re successful in the job because you have soft skills. And people thought that he was the right person for that job. So most consequential figure militarily and politically.

[00:36:05] Yeah, well, put it so for me, George Washington, I think he at George Washington was an amazing military leader. Joshua Chamberlain. Yes. He’s still governor of Maine. You know, who’d ever thought, you know, the. You’d be an incredible leader like that. And then the last one is the g.I. General Omar Bradley. And really talk about it often overlooked, as is Omar Bradley.

[00:36:29] All right. Next question. We’re gonna try to Speedy’s up a more. So back to you, John. What is your favorite military book when government’s talking?

[00:36:37] It popped in my head. Killer Angels by Michael Scherrer. It is fictional, but it did won the Pulitzer Prize bike killer Angels. Michael Sheer.

[00:36:46] Besides my books. Yes, Killer Angels. It’s written right there. I took the notes. Yes, it’s KILRAIN. Really? Absolutely. I got to read the book Band of Brothers. Get good. So you’re good.

[00:36:58] All right. Let’s reverse it. And that you Lu. What’s your favorite military movie? Sergeant York Sergeant. Your Gary Cooper. Outstanding. Great movie.

[00:37:08] Keith Heads of Glory, 1957. Stanley Kubrick’s first film, Black and White. My father was one of my favorite movies, not just a military movie. Wow.

[00:37:17] These are your calls. We were soldiers once and young battalion commander in combat.

[00:37:24] Excellent movie. Had one for Scott Love.

[00:37:27] Scott was a member of our team. Just found out that the day I kind of had a getting old moment. We’re all talking about our favorite movies at lunch and we had at one of our team members a hat and her hat and watch maybe hadn’t heard certainly hadn’t watch for Scott. But House I know came out in 94, so it makes sense. But anyway, what was war? And John, back with you. What was one of the best places the military ever since?

[00:37:50] So I’m not going to choose sort of the military POWs. My wife would be like, oh, you know, choose this particular race. But I’ll say it was a deployment, but not a combat deployment was because of post-9/11. The Army sent me and a team of others observer controllers from the National Training Center to Israel and to learn how to deal with insurgents. It was fascinating how the Israeli army could do some things legally that weren’t allowed there.

[00:38:14] So I dropped by sight, put those in the appendix to Israel.

[00:38:20] We had I served for about two and a half years in Camp Pendleton, California. And it’s a great place. It’s just it’s a great place. strang’s hard and but life was wonderful. It really was. I I loved that time.

[00:38:31] So I was a crew member. I was really lucky to get to go to. I traveled to 65 countries. So one of the coolest places the Air Force sent me was the Easter Island.

[00:38:41] Okay. Yeah, man, it’s cool. Hopefully brought back plenty of pictures.

[00:38:47] Maybe not. The air gets to go to. All right. Last one.

[00:38:52] I’m skipping ahead of Scott Thomas, who is the most famous John, who’s most famous service member or veteran I’ve ever met.

[00:39:00] Or their or their favorite one development. No. I know historically famous is probably a guy.

[00:39:05] I mean, if you to Google people and how many hits the. It’s probably William Westmoreland. He was. He was the Army Four-Star Mack v Vietnam commander. He was probably two years from from his dying. And I was a senior cadet at West Point. And he came up to me and he said, you’re about to become the first in your class at West Point, which was very strange for him. In some ways. I’m not Vietnamese, but I am Asian-American. And here’s a guy who essentially made his fame fighting an Asian war, and he spent about two hours with me, giving me some really what I needed, definitely some really good early leadership guidance.

[00:39:39] Wow. Kevin, I met I had the good fortune of meeting James Webb, the former undersecretary of the Navy and former senator from Virginia. I was attending the first Marine Corps Scout Sniper School in the fall of 1980. And he came down to Quantico just to have beers with us, guys. And he paid the bill.

[00:39:58] So he used one of my favorite famous Gödel Gibreel guy to Trident. So I was at the Air Force Flight Test Center at Edwards, California, for a four, five years. And I got to fly in the air show three years with Chuck Yeager. Wow. Which was pretty cool.

[00:40:14] Wow. All right. So Veterans Day is right around the corner. Somber occasion. It’s also a day of service for many. I think we’re gonna be together. v._a. I believe that’s Thanksgiving. Going to head home, get myself regardless. Kevin and John, why is Veterans Day so important? And let’s start with Kevin.

[00:40:35] I I think it belongs to everyone. I I only I serve because it was not a career. It was just something I needed to do. So I would guess. I I see myself as a minimalist with these things. I like the small ceremonies, select local ceremonies. I like things that are done within an office environment with a small company environment, even a community. It’s it’s not unlike the Fourth of July. Fourth of July belongs to everybody. Veterans Day belongs to us. But I still think that Veterans Day does belong to everybody. John?

[00:41:07] Yeah. You know, it’s it’s a it’s a chance and an obligation to remember forward. My soldiers didn’t come back with me. Should always be remembered. Everybody else should remembering them as well. I always, you know, restate their names. Ricky Solís, Jody Missile Dean, Emmanuel Legaspi and Doug DJR. Then they never came back. So that’s why we should think about Veterans Day in the special way we do. Mm hmm.

[00:41:30] I couldn’t think of a better answer. OK. So I want to ask for another question. Said one of things Lu not talked about when we started planning this episode was rel. Logistics stories. You know, because this is Supply Chain Now Radio would take a lot of artistic license because we love we love these. This conversation we’re having right now. I mean, this is this is why we do this. So my folks need to hear, I think, a lot of perspective that each of you all have shared. But can you tell? And then, Kevin, I’ll start with you. Can you can each of you tell us what you believe is, one, the biggest Logistics feats that the U.S. military has ever pulled off?

[00:42:04] Well, at the risk of making editorial comment, the military invented Logistics. All right. OK. So you could start with Hannibal going over the Alps with LLC, not the A-Team. Right. But and I think the Romans probably have taught us most of what we know about Logistics. But clearly, the one modern day that counts is not D-Day, but D-plus, one plus two D plus three. And those being able to feat the defeat, the juggernaut of the German army in World War Two, a lot of people look at like it’s a footnote in history. It’s not. They were going to win. They were going to you know, we’d all be speaking German right now in it. I don’t think that should be taken lightly. So the Logistics for just D-Day alone was the reason why it succeeded.

[00:42:46] Yeah, great point, John.

[00:42:48] You know, it’s one of the things I got to do when I was a young lieutenant and Lloyd talked a little bit about it before when I when I saw Sergeant Major Rollie at a dinner here at Emory University. Further vet connect dinner was Operation Desert Storm. And as a lieutenant, I was a scout at one of my jobs as a scalpel tune leader.

[00:43:06] So we were in the the left flank battalion of the left flank brigade of the left flank division of the 7th Corps. And so General Franks, 7th Corps commander, did this encircling movement right. This big left talk that they called it.

[00:43:25] And then you would say, OK, well, that’s fine, right? You know, they knew what they had to do. They knew what the path was. And everything was just three times distance type deal. Got to keep the fuel moving, everything. But remember that we did that using M1A1 Abrams tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, Apache helicopters. This was a force that was focused and designed in funded to fight the Cold War or the Cold War front when hot. If anybody came, the Russians or the Chekhov’s Osteen’s came across the border or came over the Berlin Wall, which that is a very different Logistics fight because you can have these fuel points everywhere in these food points. And it’s about pivoting off of a center point. This was converting that force. And doing something very different. And when I think about it, I said it before about translatable skills for veterans, all of the veterans, anybody who’s listening now or if you’re active duty, right, reserve or National Guard. One thing that you’re really good at is project management. It doesn’t sound sexy, but you are very good at project management. I will tell you, you understand critical path. You understand risk management. And you have to take those kinds of concepts and be able to tell your stories in such a way that when you do your interview, whether it’s at a barbecue or if it’s in an interview with Rod, with your tie in the Windsor, for you’ve got to be able to tell that skill and say and then tell in such a way because they’ll be listening. You’re gonna tell me some more about this war story. And they say, and that’s why I’ve got to project.

[00:44:48] So so for me, I’ve been essentially in the international air freight business for for 32 years and it’s 12 years at U.P.S. and 20 in the airforce where I was a loadmaster. And and so I’ve got to lean on that. You know, the I think one of the tremendous success and efforts was Operation Vidgals, which people commonly referred to as the Berlin Airlift. You know, the on June 24th, 1948, the Soviets blocked all rail, road and electricity coming into Berlin. The only way into the city was the fly was airfreight. That bar blockade lasted over 10 months. And can you imagine that a city, a major world city the size of Berlin, that was totally cut off for 10 months. So it had to be supported. We could not let you know that Iron Curtain go round the Berlin, an envelop Berlin. So the. So we did it in our the the military, the U.S. military and our allies during that 10 months. This is incredible. Over one hundred and 24 million miles were flown over two hundred and seventy seven thousand sorties by six hundred and eighty nine U.S. and allied aircraft.

[00:46:06] The normal daily requirement of food was two thousand tons a day that had to show up in. One of the incredible things in my research I read was the population there was actually getting more calories per day than the population of London. So there were twenty three hundred calories a day on the average. The A&B, each family received 25 to 30 pounds of coal per month. Some of the stuff I was reading, they said the average airplane that was hauling coal was 100 pounds heavier than when it was done with the airlift because of coal dust in that aircraft, which is incredible. So the 39 British, 31 Americans and 13 German civilians lost their lives in the Berlin airlift. However, that blockade by by the Soviets proved to be futile because of the tremendous efforts of the U.S. and their allies. The blockade quickly ramped up Cold War tensions, and most of the world saw the Soviet Union as a cruel state and a really a contentious enemy. The Soviets quagmire sped up the formation of West Germany and motivated the creation of a NATO. And that’s why we love Logistics.

[00:47:22] Absolutely. See also kohlman Berlin Airlift D-Day, of course. I think the Sheer. I’m always amazed, especially as movie technology gets better and better, where it continues to give a realistic scope of just the scope of that. And and not just D-Day. But as you put it, Kevin, this next following days, I mean, the sheer scope of that is it reminds me the ports, when you go on the ports. You can’t you can’t wrap your head around it. And to go down there and see the scale of that. The Persian Gulf War go for one that build and that massive build up in a short amount of time. But, you know, I think. U.S. military strength is built on the principle of projecting force. And then you can’t project force and you can’t unless you can supply it. So the things that go on day in and day out been able to protect our national interests. And, of course, ensure national security. I mean, that’s why not only do we have the world’s number one military, but the world’s number one supply chain teamone. Kevin, you put it well. General Robert H. berro. Anyone know who that is? Marine Corps? Yes. Former commandant. Yes. Yes. He he is attribute this quote. And I had to Google this more than once to make sure omit, quote, Amateurs talk about tactics, but professional study Logistics. He was quoted that in 1980 and that that says all many ways. OK. So let’s pivot one more time. Rather than looking back historically, let’s think about your time in the military and any Logistics feats that your teams pulled off and you were part of those kind of man.

[00:48:56] Yeah, I’ve got a great one. So the you know, I was a kid, although I was in an aviator, a loadmaster. I had some special assignments and I was stationed in Germany for four, five years. And it’s called The Taxi Mentality is Deployable Mobile Command and Control Unit. And I deployed a yacht during a atá Trapani, Italy, which is in Sicily during Allied Force, which was the NATO operation against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. Dear the Kosovo war and directly against President Slobodan Milosevic. Airstrikes started in March 24th, 1999, and it lasted until mid-June. And I was deployed to a really small Italian base, but is really a commercial airport. And we supported three A-10 guard units, the A-10 Thunderbolt that were Lloyd into Trapani. And they I took a team of 15 and a in there to run command and control and essentially earll port operations and whether was beans, bullets, bombs, people. But, you know, my my team controlled it. And I was the NCO I see. Which is a for those nonmilitary types. It’s essentially the sergeant that was in charge and we just made it happen. I’ve never worked so hard in my life. And there was one of my favorite stories is there was a a checklist in one of our regulations that talks about engine running, offloads of airplanes with explosives onboard. And we always reluctantly like I would never do that. Sorry, that’s never going to happen. And there I was. So it was a small airfield. Are these eight? We’re leaving every morning fully hung with everything and then everything and coming back with nothing. Actually, they were coming back with with just two Sidewinder missiles. So they were expanding ordinates very quickly and everything was flown in. And my team was handling it. So we were working a AC 130s a day that were full of tens of thousands pounds of bombs.

[00:51:08] I was backing these C-130s down all along remote taxiway because we couldn’t even we wanted to get it as far away. And doing as these offloads and why we’re doing those offloads of the C-130’s. We had a C-17 parked on the runway and we’re doing engine running offloads on the runway because it was too big and heavy to go onto the taxiways. One of the things I really remember is we work in some really long hours. And and one of my troops was so tired and we took a break and he had a cup of noodle soup and he was so tired he couldn’t boil the water in his hot cup and he poured coffee into it. And any eight that it a twofer said absolutely. And a, we we worked so hard. We made it happen. It was really one of my proudest moments of outside of the airplane. And then I went back home. I spent about two weeks in a back home with a wife and a little bit of time off. And then I was right back on the road in the Marone Spain supporting the air bridge operation Froome for Allied Force, which is the air bridge. Is it great? But just Sichel effort as well. Awesome.

[00:52:22] Wow. Kevin or John, who’d like to fight?

[00:52:25] You’re going to tell you I can’t follow that. Lloyd touched on one thing. Sergeants, sergeants from the Marine Corps. Mike, quick story on a logistical success was something when I did not do accept what I was told. When I first reported to our unit, I met my platoon sergeant. This is December of 1980, met the platoon sergeant. I knew him for about eight seconds and then privately said to me, Lieutenant, I like you. And I said that that’s that’s great. That’s that’s nice. That’s certainly. Look, if you say nothing to anybody in our platoon for two weeks, we’ll be the regimental honor platoon. I guarantee it. I said, OK, Staff Sergeant Ben invented. God rest, his soul is gone now. And he was good to his word. So I learned something very valuable then. I have no logistical successes or that again, I just had a proverbial cup of coffee for five years. But if I needed something done, I talk to my sergeants and they got it done. They run a Marine Corps, including deployments, and was grateful for that.

[00:53:28] Absolutely. John, how about yourself?

[00:53:31] It’s a post-9/11 story where I was a tank commander in Iraq.

[00:53:37] And I don’t know if you remember, I mentioned that my we’re doing the introduction piece where I was in two different cities, Task Force 2 3 7 armor. First, we were until offer, which is the northwest portion of Iraq and what our mission was to interdict the rat lines of al-Qaeda and coming in from Syria. And then we got this new mission right. The ultimate Frego came with an extension and country another six months in in Iraq. Always never. Good news, right, for anybody. And they said now we’re going to Ramadi. So that’s like going from the let’s about a 500 mile trip. And we had to move an entire batallion where we had really settled into our base of operations, even though we were deployed forward with our combat power, all of our logistics, our helmets, our trucks, 42 tanks, 14 Bradley fighting vehicles, some light mortars.

[00:54:28] Right way to move all of that. And you would say, OK, again, John, that’s a right rate time distance thing. You got to get your fuel and everything, but then you have to do it. And again, in the military, we’re doing it in in this particular situation, combat conditions writes of now you and you enter into the equation all of these things which are not things that you can not do an equation for, which is where will the enemy put the improvised explosive device? Is that civilian convoy that’s coming up against you? Are they are they VBIED, vehicle borne explosive improvised devices? And and there’s a finite amount of paved roads that you can get all these places through. This is why I and I agree with General Berra’s commentary and quote. I’ve heard that before, which is you really have to for Logistics, it isn’t just about doing the math. And we’ve got you know, you guys are prolix logisticians. I’m just an amateur at best. But one of the things that you as logisticians, I think have to account for all the time and why the military guys and gals make great logisticians is you’ve had to account for the unknown. Unknown. Right. And you have to figure out where that’s going to be and where your risk factors, both for planning and also at least in this case, in combat conditions for mortality.

[00:55:45] So we could keep Adla, the DOD more and add three or four more hours to the Sheer. This is fascinating, right, because we think of everything that the military has accomplished and what it takes to make that happen. Appreciate you all sharing some memories there. All right. Let’s wrap up probably where we should, which is with Veterans Day. And there’s so much that you could do. So, you know, all kinds different things. But for folks that really want to in a very meaningful way or in a way, maybe that might open up their eyes and might give them a different appreciation for those that made the sacrifice. How can you suggest to our viewers to pay tribute during Veterans Day? What would you all suggest our listeners do spend that day?

[00:56:25] I’ll go first. In one of the things is not just on Veterans Day. So for veterans, they absolutely focus on Veterans Day. I often say, you know, people go, what can I do want to go out? And I said, well, number one is go to a Veterans Day ceremony. Right. There’s going to be a parade. There’s going to be a flag raising. There’s going to be something at a monument. Go find out. And it’s local. You don’t even have to go that far, because just like what Kevin said before when he said Veterans Day is the nation’s day as well. Right. So we we actually, in many cases don’t want to be. Oh, we’re we’re veterans. That’s OK. But in this case, the veterans who show up there, it feels really good and feels good for me as well. When there are civilians who are not veterans, maybe their family members should come out and acknowledge that. So that’s one way to do it. Or you could put flags out or you could maybe find out a way to volunteer where, you know, many of us on Thanksgiving. Well, we’ll go with a veterans homeless shelter here, the Veterans Empowerment Organization here in Atlanta. But one of the things you can do between that November 11th and November 10th, right of the next year of November 10, 2020, is go find an organization like the mission continues. Now, I happen to be the former board chair. So I’m you know, I’m a little bit overly thumbs up on it, but it’s an organization that volunteers.

[00:57:34] You have a mission continues platoon. It’s made up. The vast majority are veterans. Men and women. But they take civilians as well. And what they do is they go find the most pressing problem out in their community and they tackle it with usually with sweat equity and with a lot of support.

[00:57:50] If it’s tools or something like that from places like the Home Depot, Lumber and things of that nature, go out there and volunteer alongside the veterans, you’re paying respect to the veterans.

[00:57:59] I think you and your family members, especially children, will get a lift by, you know, having these folks continuing to serve. That’s the Michigan. And there are in every city where the NFL is outstanding.

[00:58:11] Kevin, ditto, I can add to that. That’s true. That’s exactly what you should be doing.

[00:58:16] Outstanding. Volunteerism is great. Love it. Serve it. I always try to press people to have my cable recognized Veterans Day in May because it gives the USO has 10000 volunteers for the for the month of November. I do want to point out one thing, though, John is probably the only one who could still get in his uniform.

[00:58:33] It’s going away. Absolutely. Thanks. Kind of wear the hat.

[00:58:37] So the one thing I have to say is show love to your country. Right. You know, we we we sacrifice for this country. And in today’s environment, man, people are so quick to put down our great country. And so for the love of country. Reach out and pay respect to that flag. I can tell you, that’s one of the traditions I started at UBS on Veterans Day. We at eight o’clock in the morning, the building comes out and we raise our flag and show the support of our great country.

[00:59:08] And yeah, great point. We’d like to celebrate our differences, but we need a days like Veterans Day to come together even for a brief, fresh, a breath of air from everything else that goes on. So great point there. And one other comment.

[00:59:24] Veterans Day, for all those who’ve served Memorial Day, for those that have made the ultimate sacrifice, I think oftentimes it gets lost a lost little bit in the shuffle because everyone wants to wish everybody a happy Memorial Day place. There you go. Yeah. You know, the great thing is everyone wants to give back and memorialize. But those are those are two separate, very separate occasions. So. Okay, what a great conversation. I mean, thanks so much. On this rainy Atlanta day, which I thought the roof might come in for a second yet, but fascinating. I really appreciate what you all have done and how you’ve served in and and then taking time to come share that with our listeners here. Hopefully our audience has joined it, enjoyed as much as Lloyd and I did. I loved it. I did, too. Before we wrap up on some events, we’re gonna be at Vetlanta has got the next big summit coming up soon.

[01:00:12] And I’ve got 20 of that’s that I’m attending or supporting in 25 days. So we’ve got a lot going on. Good. Take a look at Vetlanta Daouda work. We got a vet talks which is gonna be on on Tuesday, which is a lot like TED talks in partnership with the V.A. We’ve got our next summit, which is the Georgia National Guard is hosting on December 11th or volunteering. We’re give back to the community. We’re showing up in force.

[01:00:43] Lots of great things going on. Outstanding. Okay. Lloyd, Kevin, Lloyd, Kevin and John, thank you all very much. Sit sit tight for just seconds. We wrap up today to our audience. We welcome you to come out and check us out in person. We’re going to be in Austin next week with the Logistics CEO Forum with our friends over EAF T, which is now part of the Reuters organization. We’re going to be in January, the SC Competes ICMP Atlanta roundtable, where we’re going to have a member of the Narced Nasserite organization come out and talk about some of the regulations that are that have been enacted. And then their impact on the transportation industry, the reverse Logistics Association Conference and expo out in Vegas, of all places, is going to be tough to put some blinders on to get work done out there right in February 2020. You can check that part that those partners out at RLA dot org and of course, x twenty twenty coming back to Atlanta, you know, MHR. It’s pro-Mitt up in Chicago. One year, the very next year they bring Moad Ex to Atlanta, goes back and forth. One of the largest supply chain trade shows in the country, 35000 folks. It’s incredible is what they’re expecting when large Thada shows in North America. And it’s free to attend, which is what a deal. So networking, best practice, sharing market intelligence, you name it, you can learn more Imodium Shoko com.

[01:02:04] They have been great partners to us. We’re gonna broadcast throughout for the four days there and they’re hosting our 2020 Atlanta Supply chain awards where we’re gonna be celebrating a lot of this Logistics feats just in a different way that we heard about today. And you can learn more about that at Atlanta supply chain awards dot com. Okay. If there’s anything that you can not find that we’ve talked about the day shooters note to connect at Supply Chain Now Radio, we will do our best to serve as a resource for you. Big thanks to our guests today. home-run conversation. Thanks so much. John Tene, Citigroup. Kevin Horgan, former U.P.S. or and Vetlanta board member and Lord Knight with U.P.S. and Vetlanta founder and president of Vetlanta. And you can learn more about Vetlanta at Vetlanta dot org. All right. Always want to put this dot org Vetlanta dot org to our audience. Be sure to check out other upcoming events, replays over interviews, other resources at Supply Chain Now Radio dot com. Again, find us an Apple podcast, SoundCloud, YouTube, wherever UPS you get your podcast from. We’d love to. Have you subscribe so long, messy thing on behalf of the entire team, this is Scott Luton wishing you a wonderful week ahead and we will see you next time on Supply Chain Now Radio. Thanks everybody.