Supply Chain Now Episode 462

“The global supply chain industry would be better if leaders talked about failure more, what didn’t work.”

– Emma Cosgrove, Reporter at Supply Chain Dive


Emma Cosgrove’s career began in Beirut, Lebanon, where she worked for an English-language business journal. From there she spent time as a manager at the busiest Whole Foods in the world, Columbus circle in Manhattan, which introduced her to retail, the food supply chain, and agricultural technology. She is now a reporter at Supply Chain Dive, a news site focused on logistics, freight, operations, procurement, regulation, and technology.

Supply Chain Dive, part of the Industry Dive family of online publications, makes a point of covering the supply chain for busy executives who need new information every day, but don’t have a lot of time to dedicate to reading. As Emma put it, ““Every story has to be justified. Why should we cover this? Why do people need to know this? It’s not just the length of the articles; I think it’s also the amount of content we deliver to our readers.”

In this conversation, Emma shares a journalist’s view of the supply chain world with Supply Chain Now Co-hosts Greg White and Scott Luton:

· Why journalistic integrity is so important, and how she uncovers the stories that deserve to be told and consumed by readers

· The unique challenges associated with supply chain journalism, including the fact that the most interesting stories can be as far as 12 tiers deep into the chain

· Insight into the trends she is following, including sustainability, CPG’s move into eCommerce, emissions and waste

Intro (00:00:05):

It’s time for supply chain. Now broadcasting live from the supply chain capital of the country. Atlanta, Georgia heard around the world supply chain. Now spotlights the best in all things, supply chain, the people, the technologies, the best practices and the critical issues of the day. And now here are your hosts.

Scott Luton (00:00:28):

Hey, good morning, Scott Luton, Greg white with you here on supply chain. Now welcome to today’s show. Uh, so today we’re sitting down with one of the best in the business when it comes to reporting and analyzing critical developments across the supply chain world. So stay tuned. We’re gonna be working hard to increase your supply chain, acute. Uh, Greg, we’re really excited about this conversation, right? I’m grinning from ear to ear, literally. Yeah. I’m excited. Well, we spend so much time reading and, and discussing, uh, topics that Emma writes about there. I did at Scott. Of course you can see your name right there and her. Um, yeah, I mean, it’s just so great to meet her because, uh, you know, I think we have a lot of admiration for supply chain dive the professionalism and the real journalism that they do. And Emma is top notch. Example of that. Agreed. Agreed. So more to come on that in just a moment. Hey, quick programming though. If you enjoy this conversation like a, we believe you will, Hey, check us out wherever you get your podcasts from, you can find us and subscribe. So you don’t miss conversations just like this. So with no further ado, Emma’s ears have been burning right in front of us. Let’s walk, come in in the cost Grove reporter was supply chain dive Emma. Good morning. Good morning. Hey. Hey, welcome.

Emma Cosgrove (00:01:48):

Thank you so much. I’m very excited to be here.

Scott Luton (00:01:51):

Yeah, we are too, as we are sharing pre-show, um, we are big fans of, of not only your reporting, but how you do it and really how the team at supply chain dive and, and the sister, uh, channels, um, of how y’all convey information that that one can consume. So your ears probably burned every Monday as we, uh, share some of the top news, uh, with our supply chain buzz livestream. So, but more to come in all of that, um, today, what I’m most excited about, it’s kind of, uh, having the opportunity and our audience by extension of kind of learning the story behind the story, the story behind the byline. Right. Uh, so we’re going to get to know Emma Costco a lot better today. So with that in mind, Emma, let’s talk about you first. Um, let’s talk about where you’re from and you got to give us an anecdote or two about your upbringing.

Emma Cosgrove (00:02:42):

I’m a journalist I’m very nervous about just taking down the mystique anonymous byline.

Scott Luton (00:02:49):

We’re fine. We’ll never know.

Emma Cosgrove (00:02:50):

Yeah. I should have thought of, I put fake Mark Twain and I’m originally from Annapolis, Maryland, which is a lovely place to grow up. I’m not the most diverse, which is probably the reason I’ve been out of there for about 15 years, but it’s still beautiful. And I still love it. Um, grew up on, you know, doing all the Maryland things. The cliches are cliches for a reason like crabbing swimming in the river or swim team was in the river. Like just every minute in the water pretty much. Um, so other than that, it was pretty traditional. I don’t know if I have an anecdote, but are you a sailor, Emma? Uh, no, my father is a sailor and I think he made an effort to pass that on, but it didn’t stick now. Of course I kind of wish it had, but, um, no.

Scott Luton (00:03:40):

Well, you mentioned swim team. Was that a big part of your

Emma Cosgrove (00:03:44):

Yeah, I mean it was every summer. I mean, I think I’m not a parent myself, but, uh, I imagine that you put your kids in the nearest possible, longest possible activity, like nice long chunk of time, very close to the house. So the beach was walkable and swim team practice combined with summer camp with, you know, five hours. So what do you,

Scott Luton (00:04:12):

Yes, we’ve got three. Yes. I agree with you. You’re a parenting expert already more than he know. All right. So do you still have family in Annapolis? Is that right?

Emma Cosgrove (00:04:21):

Yeah. My mother still lives there. Yeah. Okay.

Scott Luton (00:04:23):

And you mentioned the food, right. And, and all the, the, uh, the Maryland expectations, of course. Crabs. Yeah. When you go back and visit family, is there, is there one particular thing that you do enjoy about going back one activity or, or a meal or what have you?

Emma Cosgrove (00:04:39):

I live in Manhattan now. Um, I wrote about food and restaurants for many years. My palette has gotten fancier, but the sort of my day to day is a little more refined. And so, and the best chefs in the world will tell you the thank thing. I love going home and eating like onion dip, you know, and seven late, like family gatherings are like dog food dip with Fritos. Like that is so exciting to me because it’s just not part of my, everyday. I love it.

Scott Luton (00:05:06):

Home cooking is always the best, right?

Emma Cosgrove (00:05:09):

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And if I didn’t have that in my life, at the like parties and home stuff, parties it’s pandemic what parties. Then I would probably be trying to recreate it at home, but I don’t need to. Cause it’s like that special thing that I know is coming.

Scott Luton (00:05:21):

Yes. I love that. All right. So Greg, we’re gonna kinda, uh, uh, change gears here and dive into her professional background. I think a lot of our community knows who you are because we talk about you every Monday, as Scott said, practically every Monday. But tell us a little bit about, about what you did before you landed it at the dive publications.

Emma Cosgrove (00:05:42):

Yeah. I’m, I’ve been a journalist, um, for math over 10 years. And my first job, which was probably the most impactful was, um, I wrote for a English language business magazine in Beirut Lebanon. That was my first job of college in Lebanon. Oh yeah. I lived there for two years. Yeah. And I covered banking and finance and, um, 2009 was when I started. And that was a very interesting year. Did we cover anything in finance and actually Dubai crashed later than New York? So I was there when it crashed, um, which was so interesting. I mean, the crash was part of what drove me there because I was a journalism major graduating in 2009. Digital content had not caught up yet. Nobody was making any money. Um, nobody was hiring and I had a mentor who said I had wanted to go to the middle East and try my hand at, you know, the, the glamorous foreign correspondent life, um, right.

Scott Luton (00:06:41):

The Ernest Hemingway. Right. Yeah.

Emma Cosgrove (00:06:44):

Um, but anyway, he strongly encouraged me to just go and like crazy parents bought it. I don’t, I don’t, I still don’t understand why they did. I’m grateful. Cause I show I went there without a job and I, um, found one within a month.

Scott Luton (00:06:59):

Wow. That’s pretty impressive. At that time in a foreign land, that’s really, really impressive.

Emma Cosgrove (00:07:06):

Yeah. I mean, those are really good days in Beirut. So I had, I had studied abroad in Jordan, um, which is in the neighborhood, but very different country and the, the family I’d say, but that’s half Lebanese. So I wasn’t like without a connection whatsoever. And 2009, especially now. I mean, my heart has been breaking for several weeks now since the explosion at the port of Beirut. But in 2009, things were looking up. Um, there was a lot of development going on. The downtown had finally been rebuilt from the latest bombing. Things were looking really good until the Syrian civil war started. And I left about six months after that and moved to New York.

Scott Luton (00:07:40):

Hey Emma, can I ask you real quick about, uh, the port explosion, Holy cow, the video and the images and the, some of the testimony we’ve all seen. It is heartbreaking. I have you, have you heard from any, uh, maybe friends still in the area or how are they, how are they, um, getting back? How are they recovering?

Emma Cosgrove (00:08:01):

I’ve spoken to maybe a dozen people, um, Lebanese ex-pats. So folks in other countries like Turkey and France and stuff and, and folks in Beirut and I mean, Lebanese people are incredibly resilient is the cliche. They are, they’ve had to be, uh, they have a dark sense of humor that really gets them through. However, there was a banking crisis already in place since October American dollars are extremely difficult to find. And the lemonade Mira is incredibly weak, like exponentially weak. So fixing things is really a matter of scraping by that. You can’t go to the bank and get American dollars, which are, you know, pegged, you hate they’re, they’re solid. You have to work in Lira, work in trade, literally like trading for windows and stuff. And, um, yeah, I’m trying to figure out how to help, uh, from here. And so many ex-pats or, I mean, I say I’m heartbroken. They are, they, they really, uh, yeah, because it’s not, there’s no, there’s no FEMA coming, you know, there’s no recovery in sight. People are building things back with their hands and it’s the blast radius was unfathomable. So it’s really, really tough. And if you haven’t helped yet, it’s a really good time to help. And after this, I will post on my Twitter how you can do that.

Greg White (00:09:16):

That’s a great idea. So my hometown has a huge Lebanese population from Wichita, Kansas of all places. And there, there are several different tribes from Lebanon that have moved there over the century. I think, um, they’ve been there for a long time. And so we’ve always had a very, very close, uh, connection there. And yeah, it is a very, it’s always a tough time. It seems like in Lebanon, they’re sort of in the middle of everything, you know, just trying to get higher. Right. And, and this is a particularly tough time for them, but they’re tough folks. They will come through it. I have no doubt.

Emma Cosgrove (00:09:57):

Yeah. We need to get rid of this current government, but yes they will.

Greg White (00:10:00):

Yeah, well, yeah, that, this could be a catalyst for that though, Emma. Right. So you mentioned how to help, uh, feel free, you know, if there’s a link or something of a specific organization that you know is doing good work there and that’s getting the aid to the people that most need it, we’ll include that link in the show notes and we’ll help promote that as well. So that’s really important. So after Lebanon, you left, where’d you go after, after you left Lebanon,

Emma Cosgrove (00:10:25):

You, Greg, you may understand this in Lebanon. I fell in love with food and that’s sort of one of my, um, Eureka moments that you guys are so, uh, are into is that, uh, the fruit there is incredible, like especially plums, which are something I thought I didn’t like in Lebanon, they’re delicious. And so as a journalist, I set out to get to the bottom of why that is, and it’s it’s part agriculture. And at the time that’s sort of all, I all, I really computed as the reason, but now sitting where I am, it’s also part supply chain of why the fruit is so good. But all I knew was that I was fascinated by food. I want to understand the food system. I wanted to move to New York quickly. So I, I worked at whole foods for two years and became a low level manager of the busiest whole foods in the world, which is in Columbus circle in Manhattan.

Emma Cosgrove (00:11:16):

At the time they did $2 million a week in sales. And it was basically like managing an airport. It’s an insane place. It was baptism by fire to New York city and baptism by fire to grocery supply chain, even though I didn’t know it. And I bummed around the food industry in New York for five years, ish, um, and freelance did some freelance writing along the way for more food focused publications like edible magazine. So that was when I covered food and restaurants and cocktails and all the cool stuff. But, um, I buy the, you know, the tail end of that time, I started asking question more questions about farms and getting more into sort of a good food movement, which is a phrase that makes me roll my eyes at this time, at this point. But at the time I was getting used to it and that sort of led me to cover agriculture and agriculture technology.

Emma Cosgrove (00:12:03):

And the job before that I had before, the one I have now was deputy editor at a website called ag funder news, which covers, uh, venture investing in emerging tech for agriculture. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys would dig that site. You would dig the sector. I mean, it’s just a small chunk of the supply chain really. And a lot of my favorite tech was actually supply chain tech and I’ve written about it for supply chain dive stuff, to keep food fresher sensors, to make sure that cold chain is doing what it’s supposed to be doing. All of that stuff.

Scott Luton (00:12:33):

Interestingly enough, uh, similar to what you’re describing, uh, I spent some time with Cisco. Uh, one of the food provided suppliers. Yes. S Y S C O. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. Cisco, both of them are outstanding companies. Uh, I learned the supply chain study behind that is to your point is absolutely fascinating. I mean, from how they, they route the trucks like, like a so prevalent of course, course across supply chain to ensuring a cold chain and temperatures to the sheer turnaround times of how they collect orders up into a certain cutoff time process them overnight, have those trucks rolling by, you know, four or 5:00 AM the next morning. And then it’s back then. It’s just a 24 hour cycle. It is amazing of how they keep restaurant stock of course, pre pandemic, but it is such an incredible study on how supply chain really works day in and day out. So I bet, I bet that was an eye opening experience. You had Emma

Emma Cosgrove (00:13:33):

Food service at any scale is fascinating in terms of how to keep it safe, how to get it there on time. It’s, there’s so much precision, even in the smallest catering operation, which is, you know, what I saw at whole foods. And now I cover Cisco and all the competitors there, although I am fascinated to see how they emerge from this because they have had, you know, I think one of the things you’ve seen this pandemic is recovering from a shutdown is not just pushing a button. You can’t take your, like most of your demands away and for a low, most of your employees and then hit the button and everybody come back, it doesn’t work like that. You know, not only have the people moved on, but like your systems have sort of fallen apart. Maybe your best managers I’ve gotten new jobs. Like it’s, it’s tough. So food service is hit hard and it’ll be interesting to see if they can get it back.

Scott Luton (00:14:21):

Well, demand has changed for a long, long time in food service, because I don’t know the numbers. You probably know it better, but I know that we were predicting to lose a hundred or 200,000 restaurants during this time.

Emma Cosgrove (00:14:32):

I don’t know the numbers, but my friends at restaurant dive probably do,

Scott Luton (00:14:35):

But Hey, quick point. Cause I believe this was part of your article that we covered Monday about how the large fortune 500 manufacturers are trying to speed up their payments to suppliers, to the point you’re making. But Lockheed in this article, I’m referencing was speeding their payments long to

Greg White (00:14:52):

Perfect in Wichita, Kansas, because of the point you’re making Emma, you know, if you don’t protect those upstream suppliers, they can’t hold on inevitably. And then to your point, you press a button and they’re back online and you’re getting parts on time again. So it’s been interesting to see how they’re, you know, these big companies are trying to invest and protect their, their, their supply chain through these, in some cases through these, these really tough times.

Emma Cosgrove (00:15:18):

Yeah. I often wonder how many companies wouldn’t need loans if people would pay their bills. Right.

Greg White (00:15:23):

Hundreds of thousands, I can assure you, I mean, look, the, the AR financing industry exists because people don’t pay their bills. Right. I mean, things like factoring in that sort of thing exist because of that now at the same time alone is incredible leverage, right? It’s cash that it’s a big chunk of cash that you pay back over a long period of time, if it’s the right kind. But yeah, you’re right there. That would have an enormous impact.

Emma Cosgrove (00:15:52):

Yeah. It’s strange that the only industry that seems to be I’m getting enough coverage and I hate it when journalists criticize the media, but, um, fashion gets is really being held to account for paying their bills. And I mean, and they’re notorious for not doing so. So maybe that’s why, but I don’t see any other industry getting that kind of attention.

Greg White (00:16:12):

Fashion is being held to account for a lot of things right now, fair trade, ethical sourcing, all sorts of things. And also, you know, I’ve been reading lately, there’s sort of a potentially big shift away from high fashion. Right. I mean, I think people are rethinking. What’s really important. We’ll see. And I know that’s regional. I doubt that will ever change in New York, but for China. Yeah. Right. In other parts of the country, I see a lot of those kinds of shifts they’ll come back, but it’ll take awhile. So right before you landed at the dive publications, where, where were you then? That was, I was at AgFunder news. Oh, you were. Okay. So as you’ve gone through that segment of your career, any aha moments, epiphany’s pivotal experiences.

Emma Cosgrove (00:17:05):

I’m very proud to be working for a non venture capital backed newsroom right now. Um, it’s very rare in the startup world.

Greg White (00:17:12):

I did not know that that’s a restaurant.

Emma Cosgrove (00:17:16):

I know, wow. I’m Griffey CEO and his co-founders bootstrapped this thing. And it’s amazing. I can’t believe it

Greg White (00:17:22):

Probably should have expected that. I mean, based on the type of reporting that you do, it’s, it’s clear that it is very much pure, right? At least it seems it is. To me,

Emma Cosgrove (00:17:34):

We’re quality, not quantity. And that comes is journalism and revenue we’re quality over quantity. But in terms of like content, I think the covering agriculture, what it really, the thing that really hit me was, and I have nothing against emerging tech it’s really, and it should be covered and it’s important, but the impact and on the issues that are most important to our planet right now is minuscule. We need to pay as much attention to the massive companies who can just turn this ship with a decision. You know, McDonald’s decides that they’re not going to have antibiotics in their beef anymore. That is a massive impact. I don’t mean to judge other people’s news habits, but I think that the tech world tends to focus on the tech world and maybe not so much the, the real world,

Greg White (00:18:24):

The digital world versus the physical world. Right?

Emma Cosgrove (00:18:27):

Yeah. And I also think that, um, folks who have the privilege, this is food specific, but folks who have the privilege to care about their food and choose their food based on their own, um, values are very quick to celebrate niche products. Um, chefs that care about agriculture, $7 boxes of pasta that have just the perfect pedigree. And, um, we need to put all of that energy into making sure that people who do not have the privilege to research and make careful decisions about their food, who just, all they have time to do is walk into the grocery store and pick a, bought a box of pasta. Let’s, let’s fix that food too. Let’s not try and leave that food behind because these big companies, I don’t think they’re going anywhere. And we’ve learned that what they do is they acquire the smaller hot brands anyway. So let’s do both, at least is what I learned.

Greg White (00:19:17):

You know, that’s, that’s a common refrain that we talk about in all sorts of worlds. Look, the reality is if we want an initiative to take hold, it needs to be economically feasible for virtually everyone, right? If we want sustainability, sustainability needs to be available and economically feasible to everyone because you know, you think about the tiers of not even evolution of, of, of existence on the planet. You start with survival and way up here is optimization and then altruism, right? So the more economical you can make good initiatives, the more likely they are to become broadly applied. And it happens. It takes time, it takes evolution and, and, um, creation of scale. But we need to be more cognizant of it. You are dead on there. I didn’t know you were a philosopher and a journalist that, I mean, philosopher’s supply chain, expert and journalist. I mean, seriously, please. You, you got another Eureka mom.

Emma Cosgrove (00:20:24):

Well, so on this topic early, early in my time at supply chain dive, I was sent to a sustainable business conference in Brooklyn. Um, and it was, it was probably the first climate focused business event I’ve been to. You know, I was expecting a lot of, sort of, I dunno, fervor. I was expecting passion and anger and frustration, and that was all there, but it was mostly calm and nerdy as hell. Like it was just in the weeds and I am addicted to sustainability events. I’m really, those are the ones I’m missing right now because when you talk to folks at the EDF who are, that’s the environmental defense fund who are really working on getting deforestation out of supply chains, they’re, they’re tacticians, they’re, they’re statistics, nerds. Like they are in the weeds trying to figure out what’s actually gonna move the needle. They’re not out there screaming about it or tweeting about it.

Emma Cosgrove (00:21:17):

They’re the ones who are in the room. Um, and so, you know, anyone who’s working on sustainability issues, I think that’s a great thing to do in whatever way that that hits you. But if you are one of those folks who takes your degree and your experience and goes inside an organization that you think is not doing enough right now, and try and work at it from the inside, that’s a particular kind of bravery, honestly like sort of like sacrifice because it’s probably really frustrating. So talking to, you know, going to conferences about, um, sustainable investor relations that are all like Coca Cola and Pepsi and general foods, and like all those guys, seeing the sustainability folks there and understanding that their job is to crawl up a mountain in the dirt, right? Not that not that they’re there, there are levels of resistance vary at different companies, but that work is, is really impressive to me. And I try and make it as real, as possible in my coverage because it’s, it’s unsung in my opinion.

Greg White (00:22:13):

Yeah. There’s so much there to unpack, but, um, you know, I think a lot of the same principles apply there. If you want Coca-Cola to change, you have to make them recognize where it’s in their economic best interest to do so, because in the end, in the end, as altruistic as we think we all are, we really do. I mean, we’ve seen it over and over. Emma people want to support sustainability. They want to support fair trade. They say consumers say by a vast, vast majority that they will support companies that have those kinds of initiatives. But when they really vote with their wallets, only about 10 to 30% of them actually do it. And as you said, there’s a dip. There’s a huge difference between being out there protesting and being in somewhere or in anywhere actually actually doing something that that’s where the power is, is do something right.

Emma Cosgrove (00:23:10):

Well, it’s also not to say that the, you know, a change in mindset at the top, isn’t possible, there are plenty of big companies with, but the right mindset at the top. And that greases the skids like nothing else.

Greg White (00:23:20):

I think, I think a lot of them have that. I really do think a lot of them have as a principal, they want to do the right thing. They are struggling with how to get there and how to do it without breaking the bank. We see it all the time. We see so many people, uh, Sandra McQuillan at mandolins. Who’s a huge sustainability nerd, if you want to call it that, but it’s a struggle, right? I mean, it’s a, because the options

Scott Luton (00:23:46):

Are not easy to find. They take research, research costs, money, and R and D costs money in the distribution of new products or goods or, um, or technology or initiatives for years, sometimes decades to come to pay that off. So yeah, it, it is a slow crawl up a dirt Hill with 120 pound pack on your back. And it’s all. Alright, so we’re going to dive into some, look what I did there.

Emma Cosgrove (00:24:20):

Well, I’ve never heard that pun before. Okay.

Scott Luton (00:24:21):

I’m sure. I bet you’ve heard it a million times. I’m sure. But you know, um, again, not to make this a fan Fest, but you know, we consume y’alls reporting, you know, day in and day out really. Uh it’s it’s a great go-to. Um, but for, for the three people in our listening audience that maybe have, have not stumbled across supply chain, dive yet. Tell us more about that and it’s and your sister publications.

Emma Cosgrove (00:24:47):

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, for those three people sign up right So supply chain dive is a couple of things. It’s a daily publication that comes into your inbox. First of all, it’s a new site. We work really hard to make it on a new site that is alive, that you can just go to supply chain, Anytime don’t wait for the newsletter, just go to the site and see what’s going on today. However, we do deliver it to your inbox every morning. That’s the daily dive on general news, covering freight logistics operations. So that’s everything that happens inside the box and procurement and putting those four things together. I think it’s pretty novel and pretty revolutionary, um, in, in the world of trade publications in this, in this area, just because, um, the publication launched before I came on, I believe in 2016. And the idea was that the modern supply chain executive needs to know, or at least have an awareness of all of these things because we’re getting rid of the silos between them. And so if you’re in procurement, you need to understand operations because inventory management and procurement go together, I have met so many demands planners who have nothing to do with inventory management, maybe.

Scott Luton (00:26:02):

Right. Let me belabor your point for a second. As someone that has been in supply chain management for, you know, closer to two years. Yeah. Close. Um, you know, if you look at study after study, especially the last 10 years supply chain, practitioners and leaders are looking for people that can understand that bigger picture, right. And understand how their role, uh, and their decisions they make. It has the ripple effect there. So, so that’s in demand. So I love how that are making those connections. It’s important. Yeah.

Emma Cosgrove (00:26:32):

Yeah. And we, we acknowledged that, um, you know, we’re, we’re a horizontal publication, meaning not every article is going to be for every reader. Some of them go deep on regulations for trucking. Not every supply chain manager needs to know that stuff, but I think scanning all of the headlines every day, it’s going to help. I really do. And then we also have two specialized, weekly publications, one on operations, which is everything inside the box. Uh, so it’s mostly warehouse management, inventory management. I’ve just been writing about stockouts a ton because I mean, we all know that’s a huge issue right now just cannot write about stockouts enough. And we know that readers can not get enough. So fulfillment and then, uh, procurement, which is really, I think a differentiator too, because procurement is amazed. Um, it is a, it is a tough subject to break into.

Emma Cosgrove (00:27:25):

And, and I’ll admit, it’s the one that I’m still working on breaking into in terms of my understanding. It’s a deep well, and so putting, we put all those things together in the daily, and then we have the two weekly publications that you can sign up for as well. But all of the content lives on the site all the time. And you can address that any time. There are also some cool data products on the site. You have an industry pulse page that is just about for all the freight modes and rates and capacity. Um, that’s managed by my dear colleague, Matt Leonard, and, uh, we’re putting out special reports and stuff all the time. So yeah, that’s supply chain, dive supply chain dive is one of, I believe 20, but the number grows frequently. So don’t hold me to it. But there are 20 dives. Yeah. Niche, publications targeted at industry executives in 20 different industries. So grocery and retail, uh, biopharma, if you are interested in the vaccine supply chain, we cover that too, but they are tracking the actual vaccine development like nobody’s business at biopharma dive, um, healthcare dive about hospitals, capacity marketing dive. If you want to see how the pandemic has changed marketing, we have 20,

Greg White (00:28:31):

We’ve seen it firsthand by the way, on marketing. I mean, suddenly we’re not just a news or community or content creator. Now people are asking us to be their marketing arm, right. They want to reach this community. And because physical events have evaporated, there’s nowhere to go to meet people in the industry. So now more and more professionals are meeting with each other virtually. I mean, not just on zoom meetings, but I’m trying to create this one.

Emma Cosgrove (00:29:04):

Well, the virtual is getting better too, which is great. I’ve been enjoying it a lot actually. And the company has noticed that too. I mean, industry dive is, is doing quite well. I won’t share, share details, but we’re doing quite well through the pandemic. I think people need to do their jobs better and faster and more efficiently. And there’s no better time to be reading a publication that is structured the way we are. And that’s how the sort of structure of the editorial content is one thing that, that brings all the dives together, which is we do dive briefs, which three quick bullets, just exactly the facts. And then the insight, which is the analysis part. If you’ve got the analysis down great, you can just read the bullets. It’s fine. I would like you to say for the insight, that’s where we put all the love and the, and the attention, but

Greg White (00:29:50):

Greg knows everything. So he may not stay there. I stay there for the whole, whole shebang. I love it. I really do. Yeah. I, I, I have gotten to where I read the articles middle out. I go down to the dock. I go down to the dive and then go back to the top and read back through it.

Emma Cosgrove (00:30:10):

Yeah. Um, yeah. And there are, we have strict, I mean, we have rules and they are, there is a word count cap. And, um, so we, we try and keep it short and, um, and quick, uh, we have deep dives as well, which are long and getting longer all the time. Um, because we have just, we’re getting better and better at data analysis and not let her, it brings up cool toys and we play with them. Um, uh, the idea is also that, um, and we are super strict with us at supply chain dive. We try really hard to make sure that supply chain managers and folks in the industry need to know what we’re covering. We, we debate constantly what we, what not to cover. It’s we talk more, you know, every, every story has to be justified. Why should we cover this? Why do people need to know this? Because it’s not just the length of the articles. I think it’s also the amount of content we deliver to our readers. We want to make sure we want it to be distilled into what you need. We don’t want to be covering things that we don’t feel that you need. We have limited capacity. You have limited time. It’s really important to us that we, we really distill it down to the most important stories. And hopefully that’s why you like it.

Greg White (00:31:20):

I think you do a fantastic job because what I noticed in really leaping, I almost said diamond leaping into the publications that you all have is, um, an I despise advertorials and that had become the norm in industry publications. And when I found, and I think Scott and I have talked about this over and over again, when, um, when I found supply chain dive, it was real journalism. You are a real journalist. It’s not written by somebody who even has the most subtle ax to grind or most subtle product to pitch or anything like that. And I have one of those papers, one of those curated emails that I send out and I have limited it, frankly, to dive publications because I can’t trust anyone else to not put advertorials in there. And it’s some of the articles are AI generated. So you wind up with a few advertorials in there. And I feel like I have to go back in there and weed them out.

Emma Cosgrove (00:32:25):

I’m glad you noticed the standards there because we, we work. I mean, we are all trained journalists. That’s, that’s who we hire and, uh, it’s it. Yeah, it’s really important. And, um, I think it’s really important in this, in any sector trade publications, are they vary greatly in terms of quality. And I have no intention of naming any names, but I think for, there’s no reason that you shouldn’t hold our sources and companies to the same account, but journalists that the New York times and the wall street journal are doing, and we pride ourselves on doing that and use all the standards that we should. It’s important. I wouldn’t work somewhere that didn’t honestly,

Scott Luton (00:33:03):

You’re, you’re a reporter, a journalist, but often that belies the actual day to day that a person does their title. So, and it sounds like you all have some varying roles. I mean, with Matt getting into analytics and that sort of thing, not pure, just pure journalism. Tell us about a day in the life of Emma cost.

Emma Cosgrove (00:33:26):

Sure. Yeah. I’ll defend that for a second data. Journalism is journalism, but, um, he’s just really good at it.

Scott Luton (00:33:33):

Oh, I thought he was like developing tools and stuff. Got it.

Emma Cosgrove (00:33:36):

I mean, he, you know, cleaning data, developing tools, I don’t think they don’t understand. Yeah. I’m a geek journalist.

Scott Luton (00:33:48):

So yes. So earlier this week we had someone that used the phrase digital mop and, and it was, it was one of those things where it just brought some yeah. Cleaning data, right. That digital mop. And it was such a neat phrase. I think we’re going to own a dollar for every time. We mentioned that, but there there’s a huge need given that this enormous tidal wave of data that we’re all getting hit with daily, that what Matt does and what other folks do really looking for the signals and, and, and doing away with all the stuff you don’t need, man. That is, that’s some of the power of really good journalism, I believe. So. Anyway, keep, keep driving. I love how Greg put it day in the life. Yeah.

Emma Cosgrove (00:34:30):

Back to me. Um, so I mean, most days are talking to people and reading. I mean, I consume 60, 70% more than you read because I’m mining supply chain news is not sitting out there on the surface. I personally on this as the main reporter on the team, I’m I stay away from press releases. I don’t, I’m looking for a story. That’s not being handed to other folks, you know, during the, during the earning cycle, I’m reading or listening to 15 calls a week, roughly, uh, of any company with a supply chain. That’s interesting notable. And then, you know, looking for fulfillment network changes and supplier issues and trying to connect with, that’s been trends that this big trends of skew trimming in the CPG world is one that I just pulled out of, you know, seven different earnings transcripts. I just kept seeing it over and over and over again. And so that, that volume of consumption is really important. Part of my reporting, including like sec filings and ESG reports and just like all of the things

Scott Luton (00:35:33):

It’s really exciting reading too. Isn’t it? Emma? I mean, command is my friend.

Emma Cosgrove (00:35:38):


Greg White (00:35:39):

That’s good. What did you wait? What’d you call it?

Emma Cosgrove (00:35:41):

Oh, sorry. I have a Mac control app is my friend. Yeah. Yeah. And then I’m, I’m talking to folks as much as I can from any level. So Amazon warehouse, employees, USP S carriers up to know and all kinds of stuff. Um, you know, sometimes it’s background conversations. A lot of times it’s most of the time it’s work or something coming up. Um, but yeah, I’m just trying to listen and see what folks are concerned about and, and, and figure out what’s coming up next. And, and the thing about supply chain, that’s really interesting too, is that like, you know, some companies are way ahead and some are years fine. Like Kraft Heinz yesterday, Heather yesterday, Tuesday had their investor day where they presented their big, like supply chain overhaul. And it’s, it’s gonna help a lot. It’s, it’s a lot of its supply chain. One-on-one, you know, you read, you read this stuff, but it takes, I feel like I’ve used this analogy lot. It takes a lot to steer a big ship. It’s hard to turn a big ship so

Greg White (00:36:37):

I can tell you, well, I can tell you that. I think the recognition that we’ve had is I come from the retail trade. So some of the things, some of the optimizations and constraint management and advanced techniques that we were using in the early nineties still don’t exist in CPG and Emma. There are two reasons that I have discovered over those lo these many years. One is their margins are so huge that they can afford to be sloppy. And two is, they are big ships with ancient traditions and very often built by acquisitions so that, you know, this a craft plant was once a craft company and a Heinz plant was once a half a Heinz company. And they have never amalgamated processes or management styles or core or cultures or any of that stuff. So it’s an, it’s a number of legacy issues along with the fact that they make oodles and oodles of money. So they’ve got money to burn.

Emma Cosgrove (00:37:37):

One of the things I’m watching, this is not, not an answer to that. The formal question of what are you watching. But one of the things I’ve been fascinated by is, is CPG in the eCommerce age, because sometimes they tell me like, we’re doing, e-commerce, we’re getting into it like one CPG who I will not name told me they were drop shipping. This is a huge company. And I was like, that’s what, who are you drop shipping to? Like, where are those orders coming from? It didn’t. Yeah. So CPG is in eCommerce and I’ve talked to some of the carriers in like three PLS about this too. And they confirm it is it’s it’s still getting going.

Greg White (00:38:17):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that’s something, frankly, the retailers have feared for decades is, is their brands, their suppliers going direct on them. But at this point it’s almost, does it even matter? I mean, so much of retail and so much product, I think, especially now have

Scott Luton (00:38:36):

Discovered, can be bought virtually that the retailer you buy it from is almost immaterial. You know, it’s, it’s the one you find with the best price or best availability.

Emma Cosgrove (00:38:47):

Oh, for sure. And, and best delivery experience depending on your sort of privileged level there. Yeah.

Scott Luton (00:38:54):

Right. So let’s talk about your favorite part of what you do. Emma and I, and, and I can just from the first, from, from what you’ve already shared, I bet Greg and I both probably have our own assumptions. It’s, it’s really, it’s remarkable to kind of hear the story behind that byline. That’s exactly what we, we, uh, uh, had envisioned, but you tell us, what’s your favorite part of what you do at supply chain dub.

Emma Cosgrove (00:39:21):

It’s also the answer of two answers and they’re kind of also my favorite part about journalism in general, but, um, we sort of mentioned conscious consumption before and the, the actual impact of making intentional choices about what you buy is debatable. Um, I think in the grand scheme, but that doesn’t mean I don’t want to make the best possible consumer decisions, support brands and companies that I think are not harming people. And, uh, I have the understanding to do that now from covering supply chain in a way that I didn’t think I ever would. And it grows all the time. I’m still not to the bottom. I mean, the fashion supply chain generally has 12 tiers, so it’s hard to get to get down through, but I’m funny, I think where you land on that, it’s just consumed less. I think that’s the shortcut, but don’t tell anyone.

Scott Luton (00:40:11):

Yeah. So there are shortcuts in life. How about that? Who would have thought, yeah, along those lines of consuming less, I found that the minimalist minimalism movement and some of the documentaries there are fascinating, it really is. Uh, and you know, we’re going to have to fit. We are going to figure out how to, to some degree consume less, save more, and hopefully we can speed up those efforts, but I don’t want to shortcut your answer because I want to, I want to go broader with this next question. And really, you know, amongst beyond everything you’ve shared really hear what issues you’re really tracking more than others, but anything else about the passion and the joy you get in your day to day role right now? You’d like to

Emma Cosgrove (00:40:51):

Sort of the way I think about my reporting, the first question I ask is whose desk is this on? Um, and since I’m writing for a professional audience that really helps me zone in on, you know, who’s got this decision to make. Um, and what, what even is the decision? What are the, what are the levers here? What are the pressures? What are the, what are the KPIs that this person is, you know, their raises dependent on. So what I love, it’s getting access to the folks who are, who have those decisions on their desk. That means something to me. Um, I’d say sustainability is, is top of the list, but, um, there are plenty of decisions that I’m a stakeholder in and that, um, that, that really matter, I think, and, and shape the way that our, our world and the way we sort of sustain works. And so, you know, getting to talk to those folks, you, you know, you guys geek out about supply chain reporters. Apparently I geek out about the senior director of sustainability at Walmart, who I spoke to last week, you know, just to clarify,

Scott Luton (00:41:46):

Let’s just clarify, we are fans of the best in the business. That’s what we are big fans of. And, and we use your reporting regularly. And, and, and so we know your, you know, your reputation kind of preceded you and, and your style and, and your information, your important information first. So that’s, that’s what we’re big fans of. Um, and you, it’s really neat to hear kind of your approach and your thoughts behind all the work that we have seen thus far. So, Hey, we’re very genuine in terms of our appreciation of, of how you approach what you do, because this industry big part of our mission is it needs a spotlight. It needs champions, it needs, it needs, you need to spotlight the folks that have made this industry happen for, for decades and never been recognized nor the challenges they face day in and day out. So, Hey, call us, uh, fans, we’re big fans, big fans, big fans of the mission and the approach. So with that in mind, Emma, let’s think about, let’s go broad, right? And, and, you know, of course you port on a wide variety of things and analyze a wide variety of things, but what is one topic or issue or challenge a one or two that you’re really tracking more than others right now in this, in this year of massive change and complexity and change.

Emma Cosgrove (00:43:13):

Thank you by the way, that’s very kind and a little bit more fine, but thank you very much for it. We’re glad you enjoy our work. I would start with sustainability, but I won’t, because I feel like I’ve talked about that a lot. I am fascinated right now by the e-commerce transition into retail. Um, not, not just the pandemic specific one, quite honestly, because this, the step change, this massive shift in volume toward e-commerce is it’s accelerating trends. And I think it’s not just accelerating trends within organizations. I think it’s also creating new ones that may stick around and may not be figuring out that the per unit economics for eCommerce is incredibly difficult because the landscape keeps changing. And I have a lot of sympathy for folks who are, who are tasked with that. But yeah, I mean, it’s a sink or swim supply chain is a sink or swim element of retail right now in a way that it hasn’t been before at all.

Emma Cosgrove (00:44:09):

I think it always is, but right now, and I listened to your interview with John gold and he was absolutely right. Like, this is the event that is going to, we’re going to lose some retailers. I mean, we’re already losing them, check out retails I for their bankruptcy tracker. But yeah, we are, we’re going to lose some folks. And it’s, it’s the ones who, who they’re too far behind. They, they, they can’t up now. It’s not just fulfillment inside the warehouse. You can’t just outsource fulfillment and solve your problem. It’s also sourcing. It’s also, you know, how many tiers in your supply chain are you buying from manufacturers at all? Are you buying from brokers of brokers or brokers? You know, that’s the way a lot of these big retailers work. And so that is fascinating to me. And, um, we’ll go on for, I was beyond the pandemic, but I really think we shouldn’t use that language anymore.

Emma Cosgrove (00:44:57):

It will go on for, for years and come with that, I think is the other one, which is I’m diving into the soon. I hope because I haven’t really written about it yet, but the idea of demand planning in this environment, um, a lot of companies and executives have just said, we’re not doing it. Um, you know, we sort of put it aside and we’re just like, we’re going to get as agile as we can so that we can react in a moment. And, um, but demand planning has got to come back in some form and it’s gotta be smarter than it was before. That might be a place where emerging tech and play a role. However, it depends on who you ask, whether the AI really survived, the AI demand, planning software really survived the pandemic. So yeah, I really am just digging into this and it’s fascinating.

Emma Cosgrove (00:45:39):

And then sustainability is my constant obsession, especially like getting into the nitty gritty of science based targets and how all the schools are structured, because how all those goals are structured, leads to how companies are reviewed and how they benchmark success. And big companies do not like to fail publicly. So they set themselves up for success. They know that likely they know they’re going to get there. It’s the goals that the really big goals that I just, there’s no way they know how they’re going to get there. They rely on EVs. They rely on extra like electric vehicles or energy transitions, like getting deep into the decisions of, of sustainability goals and how those goals are set up and how they’re followed through upon is endlessly fascinating to me. And I probably write too much of it for our audience’s appetite, but I never get tired of it. And I think, I honestly think that it’s sustainability, but if the supply chain folks aren’t involved in it, now they will be. So if you’re skipping those articles, read them,

Greg White (00:46:40):

Yes. Supply chain is the number one contributor controller, whatever catalyst of, of sustainability.

Emma Cosgrove (00:46:50):

Yeah. It’s 90% plus of emissions in companies in most, um, in companies with supply chain. So like the, that excludes like energy companies, it excludes a couple of categories like waste management, that kind of thing. But if you’ve got a supply chain, your supply chain is 90% of your emissions or, or more

Greg White (00:47:08):

Well, and I mean, it’s not just emissions it’s generation of, of waste, right? It’s um, you know, it’s, it’s more than it’s more than just carbon footprint, technically, I guess, you know, the, the emissions type portion of it. And we, we need to focus on that. And as you addressed earlier with fashion,

Scott Luton (00:47:30):

Huge waste, huge amount of waste in that, in that industry it’s inherent in that industry. And that needs to change.

Emma Cosgrove (00:47:38):

Yup. Plug for waste, We’ve got a waste publication too.

Scott Luton (00:47:43):

We’ve got to die for that. Hey, we got it. [inaudible] that’s right. It’s like 2007 all over again. That’s right. Yeah. About right. So Emma moving right along. One of the final questions we want to ask you here is a new question to fill in the blank question for us. So the global supply chain industry would be better if leaders blank, what would be your blank?

Emma Cosgrove (00:48:08):

Uh, the global supply chain industry would be better if leaders talked about failure more, what didn’t work. So please expound. Sure. Um, the sort of fail fast mentality, uh, in, in tech, it’s bleeding over into big business in, in some ways it’s interesting. The company that I’ve heard talk about this in, uh, in a really realistic way is tractor supply. Do you guys follow tractor supply? They’re so great. Awesome. So they, um, they got two buckets pretty late, but they, they said like, we are going to try this and we don’t know if it’s going to work, but here’s what we’re going to try anyway. Great. And I think they’re doing well, but like the idea that you would start a program, talk about it and admit that you don’t know if it’s going to work and then explain why, why are we not, it worked or not is new.

Emma Cosgrove (00:49:04):

It doesn’t happen that much. I know that there are lots of financial considering I’m not naive. Like there are reasons that companies don’t talk about their failures. There are some, you know, it’s usually the turnaround CEOs that get to do that. And I think if you listen to Marvin Ellison at Lowe’s, if you listen to, um, Miguel, Patricia at Kraft Heinz, you know, that, that basis in reality, that willingness to admit where we are now and understand it in a, in a way to understand where they need to go, um, is refreshing, I think for both journalists and for, you know, consumers of media. And I’d like to hear more

Scott Luton (00:49:43):

Love to answer, uh, we, we need, uh, for as, as popular and as in demand, as transparency has become, we need tenfold of it, right? We’re still, still not exactly wording. And the vulnerability that comes with being honest about communicating your experiences and failing in a lot more of that. Um, Greg, I know you’ve got some thoughts based on what Emma has just shared before we make sure our listeners know how to connect with them. Uh, Greg, please, please. What, what brings, what, what does Emma’s comments bring to your mind? This is not at all. What I was expecting is what it brings to my mind. I mean, I don’t know what I was expecting. Honestly, we’re talking

Greg White (00:50:28):

To a really, truly worldly deep thinker, right? Someone who though you claimed early not to be a supply chain expert, you are a supply chain expert. You at least understand the dynamics of the industry at a macro level. And in some cases, a micro level, very, very well, and someone who really cares about objective truth. And that I knew that I knew because of her writing. It’s funny. I was thinking at some point through this, I want to say this in the right way. What I love about your style in writing, Emma is there is no style. It’s just the facts. Ma’am right. I’m sure you’d be a great novelist as I know, many journalists hope to be, but, but the fact that you’re not trying to, uh, and this irritates me, my mother was a journalist and, uh, um, and I’ve only ever read Hemingway novels.

Greg White (00:51:23):

So, um, I’m very sensitive to this, but the fact that people try to impress their Columbia grad in your case, George Washington university, grad friends with their incredible vocabulary, um, with their, their engaging prose with whatever it is in a news story is a distraction to me. And the fact that you keep it about the news, it’s very, very well written. I want to be clear about that. It’s very, very well written, but it is about the news. It’s not about you, it’s not about your vocabulary. It’s not about your ability to turn a phrase or anything like that. And that, that to me is what sets your, your writing apart, aside from the fact that you are clearly a pro at this, I know you’re, you keep shaking your head when I say that, but, you know, supply chain probably better than, you know, you know, it, I think if you sat back and examine it, you would recognize that you are among the most objectively knowledgeable in the principles of supply chain out there, not the deep practices, but the foundational principles. So that, and that serves our industry very well.

Emma Cosgrove (00:52:36):

Can you tell how uncomfortable I am? Thank you very much. Um, my managing editor would greatly disagree with you on the simplicity of language. She thinks I use too many flourishes as it is so great to hear as well. I’m so excited to play that back for her.

Greg White (00:52:51):

Yeah. Please play it back because I’m exceptionally sensitive to that. I can’t remember what article I read that I couldn’t read. I just couldn’t go on another sentence. Um,

Emma Cosgrove (00:53:01):

That’s too much. Yeah. I mean, the I’m lucky the dive format does the brief format with the bullets and the insight. It really does reign you in, which is good.

Greg White (00:53:09):

Well, yeah, it’s interesting. At least I found this interesting when you do so much, that is public facing, right. And, and, and, and the public consumes it. You really put yourself out there. We’re talking about vulnerability and transparency a minute ago. I mean, when putting your thoughts

Scott Luton (00:53:26):

And your feelings or your thoughts and analysis and your interpretation, I mean, you’re really putting yourself out there, but so it’s really interesting to hear now for me, at least now that we have consumed so much of that and discuss so much of your analysis to kind of hear your emo behind it, it really is a facet. I’m gonna have to go back and listen to this and process some things that you shared earlier, but admire what you do. And that’s a very genuine, uh, position we have here. And as Greg said, objective truth, we need more of that in truckloads and not just in supply chain, but across the business world and beyond, and, and, you know, so it’s good to sit down and rub elbows with someone that does it, does it in such a great way. So in the Costco of let’s make sure folks know how to connect with you and connect with, with a supply chain Dov and your other publication.

Emma Cosgrove (00:54:18):

So kind from both of you, um, since you said, truckload quick plug for transport dive, which is bringing the same facts and objective, uh, analysis. Those are our very close buddies at transport. I mean, we work very closely with transport dive and they’re, they’re, they’re new. So they launched this year. So you’re not subscripted go subscribe, plug again. I’m going to plug it again. Cause I think Greg will, will, will like that. There is an industry dive app that we don’t talk about that much, that allows you to put all the dives that you want in one feed as well. Justin, you can pay in hand pick which dives you want anyway. Yeah. How to get in touch with me. I am incredibly accessible. My Twitter DMS are open. You can message me on LinkedIn. My email is linked all over the site. If you, at the end of my story is, you know, my byline has my Twitter in it.

Emma Cosgrove (00:55:09):

The end of the story. I think it has my Twitter as well. I mean, my email is just all over the internet. It’s cause You may, anyone may email me. My inbox is a crime scene. So I may not get back to you quickly, but I will work on it. Um, and I have a call. I have a request of your audience quite honestly, which is one of the things I run into in my work a lot is when I discover an interesting supply chain dynamic that a company is not already promoting. I’ll discover it like in an annual report with the sec and or a sustainability report that mentioned the other day, I found a fashion company that mentions rail in their sustainability report. Would I like to talk to them about that? Yes, I would. Their PR person had no clue what I was talking about.

Emma Cosgrove (00:55:55):

So a lot of companies have figured this out. They have PR folks, communications, folks who have at least a basic understanding of how the supply chain works, how it’s set up within their company so that they can talk about it. Um, if you’re in supply chain and you think you have a really good story to tell, reach out to me directly first, but if you’re not comfortable doing that, talk to your communications PR department, your managers about how you can get that story out because likely it’s just not on their radar or in their skillset. That would be great. Cause I want to talk that fashion company about rail and they just,

Greg White (00:56:27):

Oh man, uh, you know, can I make a plug? Sure, please. I would love to hear more about small business supply chain. We hear so much from big companies and not only the news, but the efforts of this recovery are largely focused on big companies or maybe unintentionally negligent of small companies. I think it would be, I think it would be really great to have a small business supply chain, uh, dive into small business supply chain.

Emma Cosgrove (00:57:02):

So interesting. Okay.

Greg White (00:57:05):

If anything for business, right? I mean, it’s hard because they don’t have a PR department, but you made me think of that. But imagine a scenario, Emma, where you can just call the CEO of a company and they know their supply chain, you don’t have to go through. Yeah,

Emma Cosgrove (00:57:20):

No, we’ve done a few. I’ll say, um, this is not, I’m not being defensive, but we have done a few stories, a few stories throughout the pandemic that feature small businesses, but they don’t have a blinking light that says this is about a small business. And I think you’re, I think that’s the common perception, honestly, because we do have limited capacity that we, most of the companies we cover are big and

Greg White (00:57:39):

Yeah. I mean, because they, they, yeah. They’re easier to access.

Emma Cosgrove (00:57:42):

Yeah. I mean, they’re also click here, Greg.

Greg White (00:57:46):

Yeah, I get it. I get it. I know. I mean, I know what the business is, right?

Emma Cosgrove (00:57:50):

Yeah. It’s there if you, but you have to dig for it. So maybe we need to do a better job of highlighting it, finding a landing page or a tag or something to, to direct folks to small business.

Greg White (00:58:06):

Well, there’s always, there’s always room to improve. Uh, regardless, even if you’re the Kansas city chiefs coming fresh off a super bowl,

Emma Cosgrove (00:58:17):

The only thought I was going to get out of this because I’ll slip off because I can’t all right. I know it comes up every, every podcast and I can’t help you.

Greg White (00:58:26):

Yeah, I got ya. But we enjoyed this. We knew this would be a great conversation. And I had to, I hated to move the conversation long because this could have been a, a four installment mini series. Cause there’s so many different things that I felt we could have in deeper in, but really appreciate you taking time out with us. Appreciate all the, uh, what you pour into your reporting, uh, into our industry and beyond. And we look forward to reconnecting soon. So in the cost Grover Porter at supply chain, dive into our listeners, we’re going to make it as easy as possible. We’ll feature a wide variety of the links into the show notes. So you can, you can check out some of the really cool things that immature and every Monday you can almost count on an article being on the buzz. Right?

Emma Cosgrove (00:59:09):

Absolutely. I’ll let you guys know when I’m going on vacation next.

Greg White (00:59:13):

So please do we do, we might take, take that week off for the bus that’s right, right. Hey Emma, thanks so much for what you do and we’re gonna have to with you again here real

Scott Luton (00:59:22):


Emma Cosgrove (00:59:22):

Yeah. Thank you guys so much. It’s really great to meet you in person and thank you for all the kind words that I have trouble hearing. And, um, thanks for honestly. Thanks for reading. That’s all we need. That’s all we want.

Scott Luton (00:59:35):

That’s right. Well that’s great stuff. All right. So Greg, not to be reading it as we wrap up here, a great conversation, just like we had planned, uh, give me one succinct. Your favorite part. Emma, I’ve got probably 18 pages of notes, but what’s your one favorite part? This has nothing to do. Oh, are you asking him, Hey, Greg’s favorite part of something you’ve shared here. Emma, what’s your favorite part? I’ll I’ll answer it.

Emma Cosgrove (01:00:07):

Um, I think it’s really great to hear that you guys are, um, just as invested in sustainability as, as I am and its, and its importance and role and place in the supply chain, because that understanding, I feel like it’s still, um, it’s getting there, but I, it’s not a surprise, but they’re disparate. They’ve been disparate functions for so long. And so the more I hear about sustainability living with supply chain, exacts, transportation and sustainability living together, the less I hear about general council slash government affairs slash sustainability person, the better I am and you guys are encouraging me that that, that is getting around. So that’s great.

Scott Luton (01:00:52):

Awesome. Thank you. I, so my quickie is nothing to do with supply chain. I went to high school. College, spent my life with a bajillion Lebanese friends. I’m glad to have met someone who has been there as well and has the same affinity for the people and the country and the condition that it’s in and the, and the hope for it to be something better. That’s my big takeaway. Wonderful. Well mine, uh, you know, passionate dog had persistent pursuit of objective reporting the truth and spotlighting all the people and the technologists, but the people, the companies that make global supply chain happiness, that’s what comes out in this interview in my ears. And that’s what comes out in his reporting. And that’s a, that’s a wonderful thing. So big thanks, cost growth. Big, thanks to Greg white, my cohost to our audience. Hopefully you’ve enjoyed this as much as we have. Uh, you can learn more about a wide variety of our podcasts, live streams at supply chain. Now tune in next time as we feature the movers and shakers, just like Emma, that that helped make global supply chain happen, tackling problems, solving problems and spotlight and those that, that, that are leading the industry. So, uh, with no further do we’ll challenge you like we challenge ourselves, Hey, do good give forward and be the change that’s needed on that note. We’ll see. Next time here on supply chain now.

Emma Cosgrove is a reporter at Supply Chain Dive where she covers freight, logistics, operations and procurement news, technology and trends with a focus on retail and sustainability. Emma is a New York-based business reporter with ten years of experience covering food, agriculture, finance and global supply chains in the United States, Europe, the Middle East and South America.

Greg White serves as Principal & Host at Supply Chain Now. Greg is a founder, CEO, board director and advisor in B2B technology with multiple successful exits. He recently joined Trefoil Advisory as a Partner to further their vision of stronger companies by delivering practical solutions to the highest-stakes challenges. Prior to Trefoil, Greg served as CEO at Curo, a field service management solution most notably used by Amazon to direct their fulfillment center deployment workforce. Greg is most known for founding Blue Ridge Solutions and served as President & CEO for the Gartner Magic Quadrant Leader of cloud-native supply chain applications that balance inventory with customer demand. Greg has also held leadership roles with Servigistics, and E3 Corporation, where he pioneered their cloud supply chain offering in 1998. In addition to his work at Supply Chain Now and Trefoil, rapidly-growing companies leverage Greg as an independent board director and advisor for his experience building disruptive B2B technology and supply chain companies widely recognized as industry leaders. He’s an insightful visionary who helps companies rapidly align vision, team, market, messaging, product, and intellectual property to accelerate value creation. Greg guides founders, investors and leadership teams to create breakthroughs that gain market exposure and momentum, and increase company esteem and valuation. Learn more about Trefoil Advisory:


Scott W. Luton is the founder & CEO of Supply Chain Now. He has worked extensively in the end-to-end Supply Chain industry for more than 15 years, appearing in publications such as The Wall Street Journal, Dice and Quality Progress Magazine. Scott was named a 2019 Pro to Know in Supply Chain by Supply & Demand Executive and a 2019 “Top 15 Supply Chain & Logistics Experts to Follow” by RateLinx. He founded the 2019 Atlanta Supply Chain Awards and also served on the 2018 Georgia Logistics Summit Executive Committee. He is a certified Lean Six Sigma Green Belt and holds the APICS Certified Supply Chain Professional (CSCP) credential. A Veteran of the United States Air Force, Scott volunteers on the Business Pillar for VETLANTA and has served on the boards for APICS Atlanta and the Georgia Manufacturing Alliance. Follow Scott Luton on Twitter at @ScottWLuton and learn more about Supply Chain Now here:


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