Supply Chain Now Episode 308

Prefer to watch the podcast in action rather than just listen?  Watch Scott and Greg as they welcome Beau Groover with The Effective Syndicate to the Supply Chain Now studio in Atlanta, GA.

“We get a lot of requests for training. And what we hear is, ‘I don’t want to send my people to a classroom somewhere in a hotel lobby or hotel conference room to go through the training and then have them come back and not know what to do.’”

– Beau Groover, Founder and President of The Effective Syndicate


Despite the fact that there have never been more options for delivering corporate training, some of the longstanding challenges persist. People struggle to connect what they have learned with their daily responsibilities, and it is hard for companies to gauge the ROI of training investments. Rather than solving problems, such as one participant who dominated in-class discussions, virtual training seems to have introduced its own set of complications and tradeoffs.

According to Beau Groover, the Founder and President of The Effective Syndicate, the answer probably lies somewhere in between. Augmented training, an approach that combines in persona training with online information consumption, may be the best of both worlds.

In this interview, Beau shares his perspective on organizational training best practices with Supply Chain Now Co-hosts Greg White and Scott Luton:

· Regardless of the exact approach to training, the primary objective remains for the instructor to transfer their knowledge to the participants, who can then put it into practice

· Employees do need a certain amount of training, but the timing also has to be right. They have to be ready to absorb and implement the information

· Education needs to be ‘two way’, potentially even involving discussion and debate, so that participants take full ownership of the information

[00:00:05] It’s time for Supply Chain Now Radio. Broadcasting live from the Supply chain capital of the country, Atlanta, Georgia. Supply Chain Now Radio spotlights the best in all things supply chain the people, the technology’s the best practices and the critical issues of the day. And now here are your hosts.


[00:00:29] Good afternoon, Scott Luton here with you live on Supply chain. Now welcome back to the show. Today Show, we’re conducting our latest installment of Coach’s Corner, the show that where we taught leadership, continuous improvement, change management and much, much more. Stay tuned as we look to increase your leadership IQ. One quick programing note. You can find supply chain now wherever. Get your podcast from Apple, podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, you name it. We’d love to have you subscribe. You’ll miss the thing. I’m still on your lines. Greg White. Yes. OK. So let’s welcome me with No Further Ado. Let’s welcome in our fearless co-host on today’s show. We got two of them. Greg White serious supply chain tech. entreprenuer supply chain adj. trust advisor. Greg, good morning.


[00:01:14] Good afternoon. You said afternoon. Now you said morning and you were right on the money. It’s in between. Well, yeah, it is.


[00:01:22] We’ve had 27 shows this week. I’m I am so where we are. Yeah. That’s right. But but when we are. And it doesn’t matter because people can listen to this whenever they want. So good point. They always are the pick me up.


[00:01:32] Always excited. To be here with you cats, to talk about leadership.


[00:01:38] So what we’ve got after a long debate has been busy. Why? They’re helping organizations make it happen. He’s been a long time away. So Bo Gruver, the head coach, also founder and president of the Effective syndicate. Bo, how you doing?


[00:01:55] I’m doing fantastic. Glad to be back. And I apologize for the long hiatus.


[00:02:00] It’s OK. Yeah. I’m really glad for the event. So that’s that’s important. Yes.


[00:02:04] Well, you know, before we even dove in to today’s topic and also get to some of the comments we got on social media, just what have you been up to?


[00:02:13] Been super, super busy, obviously, running the effective syndicate and supporting our clients there with the consulting work. But I’ve got a chance that’s a pretty unique opportunity to work for a company as an interim CEO. So I’ve been out of the direct operations leadership for quite a while and I guess it’s been eight years since I had direct reports and running something. So it’s been fantastic to get plugged back in and the daily grind and leading the people in building the team and all of that stuff. So it’s just been great to say. All right. You’ve been studying this stuff and talking about it for a long time. Let’s see if you can do it. And so far, so good. I hope if you talk to the people that I’m working with right now, they would say the same thing. But it’s been a lot of fun, but it’s just very, very time demanding.


[00:03:05] Eating your own dogfood, as we love to say, in technology. All right. I mean, say you’ve you’ve designed how to make a successful organization and now you’re putting it into practice. That’s exactly right. Wow. Right.


[00:03:17] It’s a fun chance. So when are we going to we’ve got to open up an e-commerce store with your head coach hats. Come on. We got to get a tag. We have copyright it. But the head coach, maybe you’ll sign on as people buy them. Right. Absolutely. And we’re going to dove in today. It’s a merger threat today. It’s all about the latest chapter in helping leaders become better, better leaders, better change agents, better coaches, of course. And we’re gonna talk a lot about training today. So with no further ado. Let’s kind of let’s kind of get a sense of the landscape. You’re out there on the frontlines in a number different industries. Of course, you and your team, no different sectors, different facilities. What are some of the current trends in training?


[00:04:02] Well, I don’t I don’t think it’ll be news to anyone. And I imagine your listeners are plugged in to this and they see it as well. But you can go online and learn a whole bunch of stuff, right? You can watch videos. You can register for training. You can get certified. In some cases, you can even get to full blown degrees from different institutions online. So I think the trend is continuing to how do we use technology to enhance the training part? But if I’m if I’m being honest, I think there are some prices that you pay with that transition.


[00:04:37] I think it’s interesting that you chose the word enhance. Right. Not supplant. Right. I mean, it it it enhances training. It enables self-paced training. So one of the companies I’m working with uses what’s called an elementz labor management system in it. And it facilitates training right in the application. So if you’re doing the job right and you can’t figure out this particular task or even if you have in some cases, if you have a practical question my vendor just asked me to do X, what should I do? You you can refer to that while you’re in in the application. And I think that’s really valuable, but it’s no replacement for, you know, interactive training. I think we’re going to talk about that. YouTube, of course, you can’t talk about training without talking about YouTube. Everybody has learned how to do. I feel like everybody has learned how to do something from YouTube.


[00:05:31] It seems like it and I use it. I mean, it’s so handy. I’m I’m working on my car or my dishwasher quit running. There’s somebody who’s made a video for me on my problem with my car, my situation, so that that part is fantastic. But that’s not really training. That’s a suitable shooting. Yeah, it is.


[00:05:48] Because how many times? I mean, you know, how many times have you done a task, used YouTube as your assistant to help guide you through it and retained that. And that’s what training. That’s the difference in what training is. Right. So I think you’re right to draw the line there. LinkedIn has their LinkedIn learning series and UK popular de UPS standards will narrow quite a bit. Yep. And you can learn a lot there. Or at least access. You’d expose a lot.


[00:06:16] Right. It’s an exposure question is usually what what I call the online part. And I’ve done, you know, my own training online. Right. I’ve signed up and taken courses online. Yeah. So, I mean, it’s a great resource and a great tool. It’s just I think companies that are trying to say, how do we get our people training? And it’s exclusively on. Line there. They’re probably not getting the full benefits that they could.


[00:06:39] Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s it’s a sec. It’s just a segment of of how you conduct training. Right. Right. Augmented.


[00:06:47] So let’s let’s kind of keep talking about this and a little different of a way. You know, we talk. We’re talking preshow bo about connected versus disconnected. What do you mean by that? Explain that to our audience.


[00:06:59] Yeah. So it’s occurring to me that, you know, we’re in such a connected world. Right. So every point of my life, unless I purposefully set down my phone, I’m plugged into something. Right. My TV, my laptop, my phone, my tablet, my car now is is plugged in. And so we’re wildly connected. But if we kind of look at it holistically, we’re more disconnected than ever. You know, you go watch a group of people at a restaurant, even families. The two kids are on their phone. The two parents are on their phones. Nobody’s talking. The only interruption is when the waiter comes over and asks him, you know, can I get you something else to drink or whatever? And so the same thing I think is true in this training. Three Vleet and the Flowers and our soup these days. Yeah. Not even slower now. Just keep going. But you know, the same thing is true if I’m going to a training. There’s a benefit of having somebody sitting beside me or an instructor in front of me talking to me if I’m not getting something right. I can watch the video if I don’t get it the first time just because I watch the video four more times. I’m still not going to get it right.


[00:08:06] And that aspect of the training might be left out of that video. Right. Right.


[00:08:10] Right. Or it’s just not ready, you know? Hello. Trainer is explaining it. My brain is not able to process it. And now I’m kind of stuck. Well, if that’s an important component to whatever it is that I’m being trained on now, I’m kind of set up for failure. And so I go back to my company with this new training and I’m supposed to do something. I may not do it very well or may do it completely wrong. Was the training bad? Is it my fault? Is it? You know, there’s just a whole lot of opportunity. So while we’re wildly connected and there’s YouTube and LinkedIn and 40 million other platforms where I can go get some kind of training, it’s really disconnecting me from what it is that I’m trying to learn. It’s just an exposure, an awareness that most people are getting from it.


[00:08:49] So I think with with groups of people, I think one of the other elements is, is how you can feed off everyone’s energy to there’s energy that I think when we get away from that group training, I think we lose that. And also the diversity of thought helps us look at different, different solute, different problems, different ways, whether as we’re trying to arrive at the root cause, too, as we have identified the root cause and get into solutions. Get 20 different people, have different ways of looking at that, how to fix it. Right.


[00:09:19] Absolutely. And it’s interesting that you say that because I’ve been in classes and maybe you guys have to I’m thinking I’m tracking along and I’m getting it and I feel like I’m good. And somebody ask a question like, holy crap, that is a fantastic.


[00:09:32] Yes. John, how did I not think ever registered on my mind, but I’m glad you asked. Greg, thanks. Yeah.


[00:09:39] Yeah. Well, and you know, I mean, sociology studies have long studied the effect. I mean, since 2006, really, since smartphones came out, has long studied the impact of technologically connected. Right versus interpersonally connected. And they find that we are. So I think it’s starting to swing back, I think everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. But but they’ve found that the more technologically connected you are them, the less per interpersonally connected that you are. And there is so much power and it’s but it’s easy to forget. I mean I really thrive off of of interacting with people and getting ideas from interacting with groups of people. But you get in your little hovel right in your heads down, doing your thing on your computer. You have to consciously remind yourself. Right, to get out there. Mm hmm. Right. And I think it’s easy for people to get isolated that way in a training environment as well.


[00:10:35] So sales apply to this environment. You know, we’re two hundred and eighty six episodes in overwhelmingly law. Those are episodes that were in the same room together. Right.


[00:10:44] You know, which which is really rare in the podcasting. Yeah. If you think about broadcast, it’s really rare for everyone to be in the same room.


[00:10:50] Right. We love our remote guests. Absolutely. But it’s it’s more challenging to develop that rapport, to feed off each other’s energy when it’s it’s two folks on a screen, you know, connected or even not on a screen.


[00:11:04] Yeah. Some of these podcasts do it without. That’s right. Any kind of visual window. That makes it a. Makes it really tough because you don’t know when somebody is opening their mouth to get ready to talk.


[00:11:15] They can’t see you about to take that pause. They can’t talk over you as you’re taking a breath. So now I know to stop. Go, then.


[00:11:24] Well, no, it mean just just play that out, you know. And how much. I spent a lot of time trying to stay plugged in. Right. The Aredifferent Business Journal to listen to your podcast and. Other so I’m trying to stay plugged in, but there’s so many things that you’ve listened to, Greg, or you listen to Scott that I haven’t. Right. And so when we sit here and talk, even for ten minutes beforehand, I learn stuff. I find out about a new thing I need to read or a new quote that I just heard, or those things you just don’t get when you’re looking at your screen and there’s no other human interacting with you because there’s a very physical boundary there.


[00:11:57] Not just not just that, but, you know, I mean, people of even even. I have two millennials and a genze daughter. Right. So I experienced this have experienced this everyday for 28 years. So I have one daughter who will not read on a device because she feels that it it hinders if rates too much boundary for her. And that’s kind of the opposite of, I think, the way people think about technology. But she’s very technologically dialed in Instagram and what who knows whatever else. But but she reads physical books only ever reach physical books. Wow. Isn’t that interesting? It’s awesome. Good for her, though. Yeah, good. Right. But and she. Yeah, that’s right. And she recognizes that. So, you know, it’s those kind of things that give me hope that the pendulum is starting to swing back towards more interpersonal interaction. And that is so critical for ideation changing, you know, change. And and as you said, diversification of thought and embedding or imprinting knowledge is so, so easy to do. Right. Well, you’re in the same physical space.


[00:13:07] All right. So let me kind of broaden be devil’s advocate for just a second about this connected versus disconnected. All of us are singing the praises of in-person group training. I’m a big fan. However, how do you mitigate usually when you get groups together? Let’s say you get 25 people together. A lot of times you’ll have two or three folks that can dominate. And and and that’s that’s those are the folks that that could derail, not necessarily derail, but they can bully the rest of the group to think how they think and view what they are suggesting to do it not. We don’t let this encourage that leadership. And I thought leadership. But how do you how do you manage that when you’re leading group training efforts?


[00:13:50] Well, if it’s training, you know, I would probably call them out in some kind of way. If if it’s facilitating a meeting, then it’s probably more direct. Right. Hey, Greg, I appreciate all the input, but let’s let let’s hear from somebody else for a while. I’m glad you’re here. Yeah. I’ve gone so far as asking people to speak last. I would pose a question. Say, Scott, I want to ask you to go last. When everybody else is done, just because it’s the same thing that we talk about with leaders speak last, right? Once those people who have those loud voices who are very comfortable throwing themselves out in front of every single topic that you put out there, they have a tendency to influence the group, whether they realize it or not. So I don’t think it’s you know, it’s not nefarious. They’re not up to no good. It’s just they don’t recognize what they’re doing. Arrest the group.


[00:14:35] Yeah, a lot of more eager. They want to help their they get energized with problem solving and contagious improvement in group discussions. So good stuff. All right. So let’s keep driving under. One of the other things we will talk about is some of the challenges related. And we’re going to get to some great input from Sarah and Rod new here momentarily. But some of the challenges related to putting training to work successfully speak to that.


[00:15:00] Well, so what we hear a lot from our clients. Right. So we do the lean Six Sigma work. We get a lot of requests for training. And what we hear is, hey, I don’t want to send my people to a classroom somewhere in a hotel lobby or hotel conference room to go through the training and then they come back and not know what to do. And so the challenge that we’re breaking through is you have to give people a platform, you have to give them a playground to work on the craft. So if you’re going to teach somebody how to make a cake, doing it in the kitchen with cake ingredients, you know, eggs and flour and sugar and milk is much better than saying, hey, watch this YouTube video on how to make a cake. So what we’ve done is we’re combining that training with putting the the actual work with it. So we’ll train for a topic and then we’ll go to the shop floor and we’ll do the topic. So if we train a team on FYE, this as an example will then go to their building, right, their workspace and implement five workplace organization. So what we’re doing is.


[00:16:04] All right, I’m going to show you I’m going to talk to you about how to do it. And then I’m gonna go do it with you. I like it. So it’s the the the Navy model, right? See one do one, teach one kind of thing. And so that’s the challenge of if I can watch 48 videos of Tiger Woods swinging a golf club is not gonna make me a better golfer if I have 15 minutes with him showing me how to hold the club and build my stance and all of that stuff. I’ll be better in 15 minutes. And that’s kind of the difference. Again, back to the inline online vs. real life. Thing, but that’s the that’s the biggest challenge is, hey, I sent my people to training, they came back. It was it was three weeks later before they got to do anything with it. And they didn’t really have the right kind of project to work on hand. And and and now the leader that that sponsor the training feels like they spent a lot of money and time and effort getting their people trained, but they’ve got no return on that effort.


[00:16:57] Yeah, that that interaction is critical.


[00:17:01] So a long time ago, more than a day, more than that amount of time, more than a decade ago.


[00:17:11] You know, I I worked for a technology company and my job was to go out and train people on how to utilize the technology. And what we had discovered was that exactly that model was we show you how to do it. We call one of you up to do it. And then we and and because that also forces the trainer to not presume certain certain steps, because one of the aspects that impacts training is the trainer knows the process so well. They might forget tiny little steps that are really important to the person learning. And if you put an inexperienced person in the seat or in in the process environment, you have to remember those things because you’ll skip over a step and they’ll skip over the step. Right. And that upends the whole thing. So it really forces the trainer to learn how to train as well as teach people how to do it. In fact, one of the things we did and I know you do this as well. One of the things we did was try to work ourselves out of a job. So I’d love to hear you talk about that a little bit and how you guys employ that process. Sure. That is so incredibly valuable.


[00:18:22] Good. Good. Yeah. So one one quick thing. When you mentioned little, little important detail. I take karate with my 10-Year-Old and our belt. Are you? I’m still a white belt. What? Bilbassy piece to the white belt. OK. It. First we’re doing same time. I’m actually making more classes, but I’m older and slower, so it’s taken me longer. But the our instructor, which I just learned is called a shehad. So sensei his teacher shi his master. Okay. And he calls them little big details. So if you’re doing a stance or kick or a punch, he says bow, little big detail. Little big detail. And the point is, just that little Ryder is really it means everything really important. Yeah. So working ourselves out of a job. So another thing that we hear from our clients is, you know, hey, I’ve had this consultant in here for seemed like forever and we’re better.


[00:19:16] But I don’t know that organizationally we know how to do what he or she is teaching us to do. So our model sounds like what you used to do. Greg, as well as I want to have a sustainable improvement plan. Right. There’s always gonna be work for folks like me who have done Lean Six Sigma for 20 years and study this as a livelihood.


[00:19:36] But the idea is, should be when we engage with a client, we need to transfer our knowledge. And look, here’s how you look at the problem. Here’s the tools that you use to solve the problem. I don’t need to be here to solve these little ones. Right. You guys can keep going and keep going when you run into that big, ugly thing that’s like arm wrestling, an octopus. Then you call somebody like me back in. But the idea is that I’m just going to come in and do the work and not transfer my knowledge to you. I think it’s a it’s a dead model and I think it’s hurt a lot of people in my industry in particular, I think.


[00:20:10] I think that’s a key for, you know, our listeners and our audience to understand is lots of people have the knowledge. Lots of people can state the knowledge. Not a lot of people can transfer the knowledge and an embedded and ingrain it in your organization. And that is a critical question. There’s companies who are seeking training to ask when they’re seeking out a trainer. Is how do you assure that we retain. Right and employ that knowledge?


[00:20:40] That’s a perfect segue way. Perfect segue way into the fourth item we’re gonna talk about. Which is it? Most folks, most of the market think training is good, whether they allocate budget for it’s a whole different story. But why is to Greg’s point, why is good training so hard to find? Yeah.


[00:20:58] So I think it’s just that I think that there’s typically there’s the missing implementation piece, which is I’m going to go to a training class somewhere and I don’t really have an opportunity to practice. So the executives who are required to sign off on, hey, I’m going to spend, you know, ten thousand fifty thousand hundred thousand dollars on this training program. I don’t know what I gonna get out of it. And so what we’re doing with this model of training and implementing as we go is like, look, we’re implementing it in your building on your problems with your people. So I don’t know how much more direct. So the way we think about it, either you’re. Buying, consulting and getting free training or you’re buying training and getting free consulting, but at the end of the day, we’re solving problems in your business with your people. Using our methodology. And so far that has got great resonance with people. And in the second part is a measurable return on investment. So, you know, particularly with Lean Six Sigma, we’re kind of geeky about tracking savings and improvements and those sorts of things. The return on investment is right. You’re training. Your people were implementing for you. Here’s what we’ve saved. So you’re training cost X dollars. It has produced Y and saving. So Mystery Executive, your money was well spent. Thank you very much. Your people are now more capable than they were. Call us when you run into that next big thing. Y’all can’t figure out accountability.


[00:22:21] That’s a that’s I think that’s a critical element I think of. I think if so, one of the things that we I’ve also done in companies previously is we cease to call it training. I started to call it education because education does stay with you. And I think just that subtle break of of dialog in the mind. I think it’s helpful. It’s been helpful for me. I’m not saying it’s universal, sir, but I think of training kind of like this. There are there are preachers and there are teachers, preachers or orators. They stand at the altar and they tell you what to do. Orators are. I mean, teachers are shepherds. They walk you through how to do it. They lead you through how to get to the performance, the training, the you know, the the process that you want to get to a man. Can I get an amen?


[00:23:14] Sorry, I forgot to ask for the A’s. All right.


[00:23:16] All right. So let’s switch gears here, because we want to dove more into some of the feedback we got from mainly the Linked-In universe here and to industry influencers that do a lot of podcasts and lead some great discussions out there, responded to something we put out unlinked, sent us on the questions that that that really speak to this subject matter. So first off, our friend Sarah Barnes Humphrey up in the beautiful city of Toronto, Sarah of let’s talk Supply chain fame. She spoke about how important the need for change management training is. So before talking to what Rod do is shared with us, speak to change management training, especially with the backdrop of the Amazon here.


[00:23:58] Well, yeah. So I think it’s hugely important and I think it’s one of those things that just doesn’t get enough attention. We call it sponsor or champion training and lean Six Sigma. But but any time I think an organization is either intentionally or unintentionally going in to change. Right. We’re gonna change our product. We’re gonna change our geography. We’re gonna go into a new market. We’re going to go into a new industry, we’re going to new technology, whatever those things are. I think it’s an almost an afterthought that we need to tell everybody who’s involved what’s going on. And so the change management training should start the minute that we decide, hey, we’re gonna do something, whether that’s again, driven by the market, driven by Amazon or something that we intentionally decide to do, hey, we’re gonna go penetrate that new geography or we’re gonna go, you know, explore this new industry. The problem is, at least on the communications side to start with, is if you don’t tell people what’s going on, they’re gonna make up their own story. And I don’t know what it is about our human nature. And I hope we’re going to grow out of it or evolve out of it at some point.


[00:25:03] But if given the opportunity, we will assume the worst possible thing. I’ve got a headache. Therefore, it must be a brain tumor. Therefore, I’m probably gonna die. Right. And it is that that fantasy of terror that we kind of go through, no matter what it is, we’re going to assume the worst. And if leadership recognizes that change is hard. Ryder think I think the statistic, don’t quote me is around 70 percent of the entire global population assumes that change is loss. Even if I’m gonna go buy a new car and I’m excited about my new car, there’s a part of me maybe a little apart that says, Man, I love this old car. I’ve had it. It’s been dependable, it’s been reliable. So even though I’m really excited about this new thing that’s coming, there’s a part of me somewhere that says I’m losing and that change management is a responsibility of leadership to say, alright, guys, we’re going to steward through this together. We’re gonna guide the organization on what’s coming, what to expect, how you fit in, what’s in it for you. All of those really important questions. All right.


[00:26:01] That are all too often just forgotten or last minute when somebody comes up and they’re already freaked out. And what’s going on? Oh, yeah, I forgot to tell you. By the way, here’s what’s happening.


[00:26:10] Management has to prepare the organization. They have to show on failing support for the change management and then they have to facilitate that. That change management, look, there is a very typical reaction, typical progression through any change management. And that’s something that the big consulting firms have talked about forever. Right. There’s the. I can’t remember exactly all the words, but the, you know, the unrealistic expectations, the unrealistic expectations, the trough of disillusionment and then the stabilization. There are many more steps. Cleaner Kubler Ross Change. There you go. Thank you. You’re welcome. That’s good. I’m going to write that down so I don’t forget it because you learned that got of this a training.


[00:26:53] No, that’s a psychology thing. But you know that.


[00:26:55] But that is. I mean, that is something that that management has to recognize. And they need to you know, they need to facilitate people through that process and not recognize and give up, as many companies do when they hit that trough of Dickerson disillusionment. Right. They tend to give up their and, you know, having been in retail operations. I was the training that I got. Having been in as a retail store manager again, way back when was I could tell when we would put a new process or policy in the stores. I could tell whether it was gonna stick. And I wouldn’t even start because I didn’t see management on certain ones. I didn’t see management behind it. I didn’t see their commitment to it. And therefore, why would I commit to it? Because we always know anyone who has weighted or warehouse or or. Yeah. Or manufacturing operations. They’ve seen a thousand initiatives and you get trained to learn which ones are gonna stick. And those are the ones you put your time into. So training is both intentional, right? Right. And inadvertent. So you have to be very, very intentional. I told you I was gonna say that. Yes, you have to be very, very intentional about how you construct a successful training, education, environment. Mm hmm. That’s right.


[00:28:10] Peter. So, Sarah, appreciate that feedback and the input. As always, we could talk a lot. So lots more about change management so critical. Let’s switch over to Rod Lu Paula. Ma, you got that right.


[00:28:23] Radu Palomar, you you’ll find out shortly if you didn’t.


[00:28:25] Well, regardless, you know, Baraboo is a good friend. Yeah. And the show, he has also a great podcast, Leaders and Supply chain. His firm also places a lot of leaders globally in the Supply chain manufacturing arena. So Rod Lu talks about so he used to be a trainer and he states amongst some of the feedback that most trailing trainings fail. Exactly. For the reason you’re talking about work, the trainer leaves and now knowledged leaves right out behind him right now. So the million dollar question, as he says for Bo, is how to make that knowledge stick. Now, does this mean if I get it right, it’s gonna give me a million? Thanks.


[00:29:02] So Rod Rod. Okay. No, I got it. Deep breath.


[00:29:11] So it’s a common thing. Right. So I hire someone to come in and it could be consulting. It could be training and development. It could be a lot of things. And it’s what we were talking about earlier is, is that implementation is the variable that makes it stick or not stick. And I think the only safeguard is for the leaders who are looking for that training or looking for that consulting to have a long, hard conversation before they agree with anyone on. All right. How are you going to make sure that my organization retains whatever you’re bringing? And it’s a hard thing because, you know, some of the folks are better at selling than they are at implementing and teaching. Right. So I got a good sales guy. You know, I’ve bought stuff that I didn’t need because there’s a really great salesperson in front of me. And I think we all have. But specifically, explain to me how it is that you’re going to transfer your knowledge into my organization. So when you leave, I keep it. And there’s a conversation there. And it should include, hey, you’re buying the materials, you’re buying the training, you’re buying the tools and techniques and processes, and we’re implementing it alongside with your people. So if you can check off those boxes, that makes sense to say, right? If I if I get all the materials, if I get all of the training, if I get all of the tools and I’ve implemented it, if it doesn’t stick. It may be an internal leadership problem. It may not be that the trainer didn’t do what I asked him to do. But, you know, the other thing that I think ties into that is the accountability.


[00:30:41] So a lot of our clients, you know, will bring us in for a week, a month or even a few days a month. And when we come in the step number one, here’s what we said we were going to do last time. Did you get it done? How’s it go on? What’s the update? Is it working? Then we go through the improvement for that, that engagement, and then we assign, hey, here’s what we want you to do while we’re going next time. So we bring in that external accountability. And very, very few people want to be the guy or gal that says, no, I didn’t get my part done. Mm hmm. Right. So most organizations and we could do a whole another show on recount responsibility versus accountability. But most organizations fail on that accountability stuff. Scott, you said you were gonna have it done by the business Tuesday. If I don’t have it by end of business Tuesday, what happens to Scott? Wednesday morning, it should be a conversation. Right. And Scott’s responsibility if he can’t, this is okay, right? We’re not a a dictatorship. But, Scott. Hey, I’m going to have trouble meeting that deadline. I’m running into these roadblocks. So that conversation, that agreement that needs to happen doesn’t happen too often when we’re engaged with an internal organization and when we leave, we take that accountability with us that they didn’t have to begin with. We’ve brought it when we leave, it goes with us. If they don’t adopt it like it did, was that a million dollars? I don’t know.


[00:32:01] I was about a hundred and twenty seventh. So.


[00:32:04] So I’m going to help you go for the other one hundred seventy three thousand eyes, please. I think that’s a really good and practical example. I wonder, it made me wonder immediately if sometimes we don’t bite off more than we can chew from a training standpoint. So, for instance, do we try to train people on things they aren’t ready to absorb too early? Yes. So how do you how do you reconcile that?


[00:32:32] Great question. And it’s one of those appetite questions, right? So the folks who are writing the checks and approving the checks have big appetites and they want it done yesterday. Step one is we do what we call a strategic planning session or a target planning session. So we go through and we clearly define what it is that they’re asking us to do, along with what timeframe do we have to do it in. And if they’re saying, hey, we want you to boil the ocean by next Tuesday, we have a chance then to say that’s not going to happen. It’s not going to stay. We can make oil a few gallons for you. And if you like that, we can boil more gallons and we could teach you guys how to boil the gallons. But that that scoping question and again, it’s it’s hard, right, from both parties perspective, because the person who’s selling the training is really interested in selling the training. All right. The customers are really interested in getting those problem solved. So we’re going into it. I need to sell my training. I need this problem solved right now. And sometimes that scope question gets lost in that conversation to say, all right. This dude is really asking me to boil the ocean in a week. It’s not going to happen. So I’ve got to be the one. This is all right. Hold on. I’m versed in change management. I am versed in making things stick. So let’s talk about this pace of change that you’re really asking. If you go too fast, you lose the organization in that trough of disillusion. But if you go too slow, you might miss the opportunity. Very true. Very true.


[00:33:56] Almost never. I mean, you know, I mean, I know that you you have a very principled process for how you do this. Again, another experience, you know, in previous experience. We had to be. Diligent. Demanding almost of our clients because we were implementing a technology. And and getting people educated on how to use that technology effectively. Was was more about whether they continue to use the technology than whether they really like the training. And we had to be. We had to be pretty forthright and stand our ground to say, if you don’t do it this way, which in our case was about three training sessions and some some at the time, phone and and and Internet interaction over a 16 week period. You won’t be the most effective on the on this product, right. You won’t learn because people can’t observe, absorb more than this. In in the first week of training, etc.. Right. So you have to expose that to people. And it’s only fair to do that to the decision makers to allow the decision makers to make that. If they make the call, then. You still don’t get to say I told you so. I can guarantee you that. But if they make the call, then, well, I don’t care. We’re not going to wait the three weeks between this training and that training. I want you to do this. Then I want you to do that. And then maybe three weeks later do the third training or however they respond to that. Or you can at least feel like you’ve done your part. And it gives you some place to go with management. You have to be very diplomatic again. No, I told you, SOS. But I think if we were to reach targeted this way, then we could be more effective. How often do you face that situation where you really have to reset expectations after you’ve done that?


[00:35:47] I wouldn’t say real often, but. But, you know, it’s probably three out of 10. Do you have to have a conversation like that? And it’s interesting, because if you can truly get people to get in that debate and discussion with you, their ownership level increases exponentially. So if they’re arguing with me about why it needs to go faster or slower. Right. We have both. Then there ownership and making their plan work goes up exponentially. So it’s a tough situation is a tough conversation. But I know at the end of the conversation we’re in a better spot because right now I’ve argued with you. I’m by God going to make this thing work.


[00:36:22] Yeah. You know, you have had the dialog that enables greater potential success. That’s right. Yeah.


[00:36:28] And then if if we miss. Right. And it was because, you know, they wanted three and we needed two or whatever it is, we can go back and say, look, guys, let’s reset to our original plan. So it doesn’t say told you so. Right. But it’s like, hey, we you know, we tried that. Right. We thought about that. It was a good effort. We got close. Here’s where we missed. I think if we would reset to one of the original discussion points so I can make it. I want to say non-offensive but less offensive. Told you so.


[00:36:56] Well. And I think that goes to Scott’s point earlier. That is that that is another example of diversity of thought. Right. Different points of view coming together and then possibly revisiting. So you have to you have to be transparent, encourage that diversity of thought, maybe compromise and then potentially revisit. Sure. Right.


[00:37:15] Absolutely. All right. So before we talk about and make sure our audience knows where they can learn more information about the effective syndicate, let’s do this. If you said let’s say you’re speaking to our audience that in 2020 they’re looking for a training solution. And let’s leave it. Maybe it’s not about continuous improvement. Maybe it’s not even technology related. Just if you had a generic three things that you would advise them on, either things to look for or things not too good to go running. When you hear running away like like the famous 1980s group. I ran the Siegels Flakus. There you go. Like a seagull. Sorry. Thanks for rescue me there. Greene so far away.


[00:37:59] Yeah. Yeah. Very good. So what were the pictures of the hairdo? Now that I will never get out of my head. Three.


[00:38:05] So if you had three things succinctly put and to offer and advise folks in that training market, what would that be?


[00:38:15] Good question. And I don’t know how siccing this will be because I didn’t know this question was teed up. I love when you do this. You’re welcome. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Drink some water? No. I think the first one is is straightforward, regardless of anything. Number one, get blindingly clear on what it is that you’re trying to do. So if if you can articulate in a sentence, I want training to do blank for our organization. And until you can get it to that one sentence, if it’s four sentences and lots of ands and commas in there, you don’t have it yet. That’s a great point. So that would be my number one. Yep. My number two would be I would talk to always at least three suppliers. Right. To find out, you know, there’s a lot of people who know whatever it is that you’re asking them to do. I mean, unless you’re doing something really, really specialized, there’s a lot of people. And while it’s. Gordon, that you find somebody that is competent and they know what they’re doing, it’s also important to find somebody that resonates with you. If you’re the person that is looking to bring in that outside influence in your organization, if you butt heads with them immediately or you’re just having trouble following them, are they having trouble following you? That’s probably not gonna be the person that you want to bring in. And then number three, the part that we’ve harped on, I think most the most today is how does this day when you leave? How do I retain what it is that you’re bringing me? Because training is expensive. Even if you took out the expense of hiring the trainer, the time that your people put in there, that they’re away from their job, the extra hours that may be required. The work that somebody else is going to have to do. So, I mean, the cost to the organization is not just the number on the page. That is a that’s a part of it. Sure.


[00:40:06] Burnout. You know, you lead the organization down a path. If that path is not a successful one, gosh, what’s the cost to the organization? Because you’re losing an engagement, right?


[00:40:17] Right. And I’m now I’m tired and I’m frustrated. And I don’t know. Next time you tell me I want to do something, I’m not so sure how committed I am because I gave that last whenever I had the last flavor.


[00:40:26] Yes, but I’m tired. Those are those are three good things, I think in many ways universal truths, too. So two things look for in successful capable training resources. OK. So unless, Greg. Any any follow commentary on those three things. I don’t feel compelled to add anything to man that we need to record that because we don’t hear that very often on this show.


[00:40:50] I mean, I think, look, this guy does it every day. That’s right.


[00:40:54] I mean, I think that that’s tremendously valuable. And those three points are so concise and they are a great formula for success.


[00:41:01] All right. So good stuff today. We should say big thanks to Sarah and Roddy for their contributions. Appreciate that feedback. Yeah, OK. So how can folks learn more about the Effective syndicate? Know we’ve got a survey. Talk about the first list given the.


[00:41:16] Yeah. So obviously the effective syndicate dot com, we’re all over LinkedIn as well. And a lot of what we’ve been talking about is a new product offering that we’re launching now called traction, which is literally training plus action. So how do you tie in the implementation with the with the education smart?


[00:41:35] And so, again, either you’re you’re paying for training and getting free implementation or you’re paying for the implementation, getting free training. So we’re just unveiling that. We’re really excited about it. If anybody want to learn more, certainly we’re excited to talk about it.


[00:41:49] So you’ve systematised this that you describe. We have. Yeah. Wow.


[00:41:53] Now, let’s put I hadn’t thought of it in that framing up of a question, though. So again, as we’re collaborating. Right. Yeah. I am smarter and more equipped to go talk to as we all are.


[00:42:04] Thanks to Scott Luton.


[00:42:05] Right. Right. I mean, seriously, it is. It’s true. Yeah.


[00:42:10] All right. So all over social media, the effective syndicate dot com. And now let’s talk about the survey word where you were gathering data on the world of continuous improvement and more. Right. Tell us more.


[00:42:23] Yes. So anybody that listens, please look it up on on LinkedIn. If we’re not already connected and you didn’t see it, we’re releasing a survey the week of February the 24th. And it is really around culture. So our our question that we started wondering about is, you know, the the economy is red hot. Unemployment is basically non-existent. So what is that doing relative to the space that we primarily work in, which is manufacturing and warehousing. So operations, Logistics, warehousing, manufacturing, that group of people. Right now, if you want to have a job in that space, you’ve got a job. And so we’re not. What are they pay? It depends. Yeah. The survey will take about 10 minutes. I think it is twenty four questions. And it’s like all of the surveys, you know, on a scale of of. I’d like it, too. I hate it. How are you feeling about things? And we’re trying to get a minimum of a thousand survey responses. So, again, it’s going to hit LinkedIn. We’ll also put it on our Web site. It doesn’t matter where you are, what industry. And we’re trying to get a current pulse of how people are feeling right now and the American workforce.


[00:43:37] Ok. And is that going to run for a couple of months until we. Because a thousand is a is as far as surveys go, that is. That’s right. Now there’ll be a nice pool of data.


[00:43:47] Well, what’s nice is we’ve reached out to our independent mailing list and we’ve got over 250 now. OK. So we’re a quarter of the way there. And we’re thinking once we push it out and make it public and just say, hey, look, give us ten minutes, we’re. And once we get it, you know, then there’s a lot of things for us to talk about here and online via LinkedIn and other mediums to say, here’s what we learned from the survey. Here’s what people are feeling. And here’s some ways that you. Can work on it. So the idea is always to help organizations be more effective.


[00:44:17] Is there a particular thing you’re trying to learn from the survey? I mean, you you kind of talked about the macro things you’re trying to learn, but is there something in particular you’d like to add, even if it’s just you personally that you’d love to find out about?


[00:44:31] Well, so, you know, I’m pretty fascinated by culture. And the the components that we’re looking at are really around clarity, energy, collaboration and execution. And so what we’re trying to find is as a general feel. Right. So people that rated I like working here pretty high also scored high in these two categories or scored low in this game. Whatever those those things are, we can bring that back to leaders who are going, man, my morale seems to be suffering, people working hard. They’ve got a lot of hats that they’re wearing, technologies bombarding them. They’re working long hours. How do we help people be more engaged and bought in so they’re more effective and productive at work, which translates to them being more productive and effective at home as parents and husbands and wives and daughters and all that other stuff.


[00:45:19] All right. Got it. The good stuff. Yeah.


[00:45:22] Excellent. OK. All right. So we’ll include a link to that survey and the shouldn’t it? We can make sure we use our network to gather as much data and insights as possible.


[00:45:34] I won’t be mad if you get more than a thousand now.


[00:45:36] I’ll be in three hours. All that. Yeah. All right. Good stuff. All right. So the effective syndicate dot com, really, it’s been too long. Glatt, great to have you back in studio. You know, we get a lot of feedback on this series in particular. It tends to be one of our more spontaneous series. And then, of course, just like we went through today, we tried to gather, figure out what people are talking about. Right. Right. What the challenges are, what their best practices are, what their what their questions are. So stay tuned for more episodes of Coach’s Corner with the head coach. Are you offensively or defensively geared, you know? Oh, geared, yeah. Offensive coordinator offense. Yeah. Am I’m going to score. All right. Yeah, OK. Well, another great this caps this week’s programing. And this is I could imagine this is a great dessert course. Thank you. So really, this is good stuff.


[00:46:30] Yeah, it’s good stuff. It makes it you know, we don’t usually produce on this day. Right. And it makes it really something to look forward to.


[00:46:37] I’d be glad y’all at Yale were able to accommodate. And let me get back in and we’ll play in the next one when we finish this episode, right?


[00:46:45] Absolutely. All right. So to our audience, we’ve been talking about Gruver, a.k.a. the head coach, also founder and president of the Effective syndicate. You can learn more. Be our show notes or at the Effective syndicate dot com. Thanks so much. Spoke to our audience. Be sure to check out upcoming events and webinars at those tabs at Supply Chain Now Radio dot com wide variety of in-person and virtual events coming up with partners around the world, including hefty reuters’ events. Automotive Industry Action Group. The George Logistics Summit, the Effective syndicate Resilience 360. Moto X, you name it. No shortage, no shortage of vehicles. And yo, but bow, one thing we have maybe brought you in on yet, okay, is the stand up. Gosh, yes. What lab? Interactive Global Forum. Where instead of listening to us, our audience will be the star of the show. They’re going to be the ones that their opinion and insights and perspective will be leading the conversation. Yeah, we’re flipping the script.


[00:47:43] Ask the question. Make this, you know, make the assertion. Yeah. Now the question of another participant. I mean, we’re gonna have people like Rod, you and Sarah and and I think probably Danine and Daniel, maybe Sherri.


[00:47:59] You name it. Folks around the world. Yeah. That’s awesome. I know you remember well from all the webinars you’ve done, that Q&A session at the end is usually what some of the most valuable and an educational.


[00:48:11] It’s that question interact. It’s they it’s it’s that question.


[00:48:15] That person asking that question where you go, oh, my gosh, I’m glad they asked.


[00:48:18] Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve got to nail down the topics and roll that out to the folks who are registered and of course, to the rest of the market. If regardless if you can’t find something you looking for on our site or in our podcast and an elaborate podcast, send a note to our chief marketing officer, Amanda at Supply Chain Now Radio dot com or hate us on Twitter, where Greg is highly active, some active at Greg Lamar s website or at Scott W Luton.


[00:48:46] And we’ll make sure we try to serve as a resource for you if you include a chiefs reference in your in your tweet. I am much more likely to respond.


[00:48:55] That’s true. Bowl. Super Bowl champs. OK. Big thanks to our guests here today. Beyond Greg White, we have Bo Gruver with the Sep Effective syndicate to our audience. Be sure to check out all the other resources, including upcoming upcoming events, replays of our interviews, you name it, at supply chain. Now, radiocarbon fondness and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts from on behalf the entire team, including Greg White, this is Scott Luton. Wish you a wonderful week ahead and we will see you next time. Owen Supply Chain Now Radio Things are about.

Beau Groover is Founder and President of The Effective Syndicate. He has been working with manufacturing and operations-focused organizations for over 20 years, primarily focused on developing bullet-proof processes and teams that are built to win.  Beau has helped organizations save millions of dollars while also improving those companies’ customer experiences and building high-performing teams that continue to drive the business forward.  He has developed his approach and strategy over years of working with some of the biggest companies in multiple levels within the organizations, including The Coca-Cola Company, Nordson Corporation, and Westrock (formerly RockTenn). Just prior to launching The Effective Syndicate in 2015, Beau served as the Director of Lean Supply Chain at Serta Simmons Bedding, LLC. Connect with Beau Groover on LinkedIn and learn more about The Effective Syndicate here:

Greg White serves as Principle & Host at Supply Chain Now Radio. Greg is a founder, CEO, board director and advisor in B2B technology with multiple successful exits. He recently joined Trefoil Advisory as a Partner to further their vision of stronger companies by delivering practical solutions to the highest-stakes challenges. Prior to Trefoil, Greg served as CEO at Curo, a field service management solution most notably used by Amazon to direct their fulfillment center deployment workforce. Greg is most known for founding Blue Ridge Solutions and served as President & CEO for the Gartner Magic Quadrant Leader of cloud-native supply chain applications that balance inventory with customer demand. Greg has also held leadership roles with Servigistics, and E3 Corporation, where he pioneered their cloud supply chain offering in 1998. In addition to his work at Supply Chain Now Radio and Trefoil, rapidly-growing companies leverage Greg as an independent board director and advisor for his experience building disruptive B2B technology and supply chain companies widely recognized as industry leaders. He’s an insightful visionary who helps companies rapidly align vision, team, market, messaging, product, and intellectual property to accelerate value creation. Greg guides founders, investors and leadership teams to create breakthroughs that gain market exposure and momentum, and increase company esteem and valuation. Learn more about Trefoil Advisory:

Scott W. Luton is the founder & CEO of Supply Chain Now Radio. He has worked extensively in the end-to-end Supply Chain industry for more than 15 years, appearing in publications such as The Wall Street Journal, Dice and Quality Progress Magazine. Scott was named a 2019 Pro to Know in Supply Chain by Supply & Demand Executive and a 2019 “Top 15 Supply Chain & Logistics Experts to Follow” by RateLinx. He founded the 2019 Atlanta Supply Chain Awards and also served on the 2018 Georgia Logistics Summit Executive Committee. He is a certified Lean Six Sigma Green Belt and holds the APICS Certified Supply Chain Professional (CSCP) credential. A Veteran of the United States Air Force, Scott volunteers on the Business Pillar for VETLANTA and has served on the boards for APICS Atlanta and the Georgia Manufacturing Alliance. He also serves as an advisor with TalentStream, a leading recruiting & staffing firm based in the Southeast. Follow Scott Luton on Twitter at @ScottWLuton and learn more about SCNR here:


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